E30 M3 S62 Build - Loads of queries about 4x4 drivtrains

[Turk]

Hi all,

I am starting an e30 M3 S62 build in a couple of months.
The actual swap I have no problems with at all, I have already built an s54.

My real question is something that has been bugging me for ages:

How to all wheel drive the bastard :D


Heres where I'm at so far (this is all theoretical):

V8 X5 sump and front diff, matched to rear diff ratio
Does it make a difference if I use an auto transfer box rather then manual?

The S62 sump has several oil pick up points which feed the engine when the car is cornering hard etc. However the x5 sump does not have the same feature from what I can tell. How do I overcome this?

Gearbox wise I was planning to use the standard m5 6 speed box and weld a circular mount to the back level with the output shaft, thus allowing me to bolt a transfer case to it.

My next question is regarding the e30ix Subframe, will it fit an E30 M3? I know the subframe is different in order to house the diff, rack etc. Will i need to use the IX wishbones?

In terms of the struts I'm considering using the bottom ends of e34 Ix struts and hubs to retain the 5 stud, and then mate that to the top strut of the e30 M3 hopefully in a way that maintains the geometry of original set up. This will allow me to use the e34 front drive shaft (hub end) which I can then have welded to the X5 (in diff & sump) sections of the shafts.

The rest I am fairly confident with, I can find a skinny steering rack etc to clear the diff and "make it fit" :D

Out of the lot my greatest concern is the M5 Sump oil channels,

Note the 4x little circles around the outside of the m5 sump (left)


Any and all help appreciated!

[nando]

the ix subframe will fit, depending on when your M3 was built. on earlier cars, the mounting point for the subframe doesn't go as far forward as it does on later cars. you'd have to box in some extra material for the subframe if yours is an early style, otherwise it bolts right on. you'd need all E30 ix front suspension including strut tubes. you can do 5-lug in these pretty easy. Halfshafts are going to be the most difficult. E34 ix are perfect, but they're rare used, and super expensive new.

you might want to look at this thread:

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108535

what transfercase would you use? auto may be easier, but it depends on how you're mounting it. internally they're generally the same, except for the input shaft from the trans.

[Turk]

My M3 is an 1988?, How would the geometry of the ix stuff come anywhere near to what the m3's is?

Im very interested in hearing how the 5 stud hub is swapped on these. Would I need the wishbones too?

Will the e34 half shaft fit the hubs and also fit the x5 sump? or will i still need to do some gingery pokery?

[nando]

it's not a geometry thing. on some E30s, there are mounting holes where you can bolt the ix subframe to. on earlier ones, those holes don't exist. the ix subframe is further forward, the ix has a rear-sump oil pan. you'd have to use ix wishbones with the ix subframe.

Either way you'll need a subframe other than one from a RWD E30. front sump oil pans suck anyway. :p

5 lugs - there are a ton of 5 lug hubs that fit into ix struts. E36, E92, etc. just a matter of matching the bearing diameters, and figuring out what offset wheels you want to run.

except the E30, all AWD cars share the same front CV shaft diameter (the E30s is smaller). The big difference is the centerline of the front diff. it's moved further to the drivers side after the E34 (this means the passenger side gets longer, drivers side gets shorter). you might end up using a CV shaft other than the E34 (such as the X5's or E46's). you'll have to measure the lengths to figure that out.

[Turk]

Aha, Thats a brilliant start :D

So in essence the whole e30ix front end wishbones, struts, subframe and I'm there (ish)

Are there any write-ups of awd m3's floating about you know of?

Transfer case wise, are there any v8 gearboxes that came in manual that will bolt straight up to a transfer case? I have looked about but x5's seemed only to come in auto, and the manual ones around are all 6 pot engines.

Re the oil sump, do any other bmw v8's have the same oil system/pickups as the s62?

[Turk]

Sump wise I had forgotten the expensive option, X5M sump and diff, unless the older x5 diffs will work? :D Im sure these have the ports required, can anyone confirm?

[nando]

pretty much the X5. I'm pretty sure there are manual V8s. You'd need an entire Xdrive setup though - including electronics! not an easy feat..

S62's oil pan is unique. I don't know anything about the X5M, sorry..

[Keith M]

Very interesting. Look forward to the build on this.

[Turk]

Further investigation shows that the s62's G adaptive sump (which allows the engine to choose which oil pick up it uses according to the cornering G-force) is not going to be compatible with the x5m sump.

There is a magnetic valve which switches oil suction channels accordingly. The only was i can see this working is to have the "switch" programmed out and baffle the sump to protect from oil starvation.

I am trying to locate an ix's front end form Germany, so, more to come soon....

[mattdk318i]

Keep in mind a few of the land rovers came equipt with the M62. Might give you more vehicles to find a manual trans. Considering you are in the UK a breaking yard might have some?

[rav320uk]

Made it over on here then Adam:mrgreen:

[Turk]

Im everywhere Rav :D

Landrover wise the only car I can find is the range rover L322, and that only came in auto.

Though the supercharged ones may have the G-force oil system so defo worth a check. Have a suspicion those engines may have been Jag's tho :s

Cheers
Adem

[nando]

how about modding the X5 pan to use the pickups of the S62's adaptive pump?

I mean, a project like this is going to require some custom fabbing.. may as well start with the oil pan. :p

[Turk]

how about modding the X5 pan to use the pickups of the S62's adaptive pump?

I mean, a project like this is going to require some custom fabbing.. may as well start with the oil pan. :p

I think this will be the case worst car scenario. But Id like to avoid it if poss.

Found this info in an article:

"In addition to the usual pressure pump, there are two scavenging pumps, one for each cylinder bank. In straight-ahead driving, these pumps pick up oil from the rear of the engine and return it to the sump. In hard cornering (0.9g or more), the Dynamic Stability Control system's lateral-g sensor switches magnetic valves to different pickup points, at the outer side of each head and the oil pan. This system remains active even if the driver switches off the DSC."

I will be completely ditching the DSC system, so I don't know if it will even be able to do the above. I imagine it will just use the 3 pumps rather then being selective over which port to such through.

One thing I haven't considered is dry dumping it. I know ZILCH about dry sumps so don't even know if its worth contemplating. expensive I imagine.

As I say worst case i flip the engine upside down, lay the x5 pump and cut sections from the s62 where these ports and transfer them to the correct locations. Time to learn to alu weld :D

[Turk]

I have been looking at the geometry and setup of e30 standard vs ix front struts, The standard ones are at a 20 degree odd angle heading up into the top mount, where as the ix is pretty much straight up.

Is this going to cause me any issues when driving??

I imagine it will bolt up easy enough though, I have received my subframe, just waiting for the struts and wishbones to arrive.

Ps. why will the forum not let me post on other threads?