Custom Mid Engine LSX project?

[Ryan...]

Ok, this is a real stretch, but I figured I'd ask you clowns to verify how stupid I am to be considering this....

Quick background/cliffs notes:

1. A cousin of mine builds/races oval dirt track race cars. He has also built two rear engine off road vehicles using old VW beetle parts/pieces. He has the space, tools, and necessary metals to build custom chassis and do fab work.

2. That same cousin has a totaled 2004 C5 corvette with the motor/trans/suspension intact. Got T-boned a couple months ago and he hasn't parted it out yet.

3. A couple guys on BFC are currently buying/building kit cars which is what made me start thinking of this during my down time at work. Convince me I'm a moron and this project is way over my head.


This is what I'm thinking: if my cousin can build a tube chassis to hold and support the motor from the Vette, how feasible is it to build a legit kit car using the suspension from the Vette, and a transaxle from another vehicle (porsche perhaps)?

I know that designers of mid engine sports cars (ferrari, lambo, zonda, etc..) are 100,000x smarter than me, and have spent millions on R&D, but is it really possible to make something that would be fun to drive, and wouldn't kill me in the first corner/test drive?


Here's a basic sketch I'll use to explain what I'm thinking:





Say, in this perfect scenario, that I have a chassis already built, holding my LS1/Transaxle bastard in the proper spot.

Here are the questions that would need to be answered before I could conceivably go any further:

To make the chassis stable and somewhat balanced, could one reasonably take measurements and make the points between the 4 corners of the suspension the same between the Corvette and the tube chassis? Or would changing the layout from F/R to M/R make those measurement useless? Would I need to find a M/R car and steal those measurements?

How exactly does a transaxle really work? I got the basics; it replaces the need for a separate transmission/driveshaft/differential combo. But how does the driver, in front of the motor, connect to the transmission when shifting gears? There has to be some sort of lever setup running back to the trans, as opposed to a normal F/R setup where the shifter is placed directly above the transmission?





Right now that's basically all the questions I have. I'm not pretending to be ready to start the project, I've only discussed the basics with my cousin and he's willing to work on it if I can prove its not going to be a huge waste of time. If this isn't feasible, we could always do something much more simple and create a tube chassis to keep the Corvette's basic layout, engine up front, rwd, etc...


Let the bashing begin

[slammin.e28]

Porsche 911 parts. Go.

[IronFreak]

No bashing here, love the idea! But to get an idea...whats the biggest custom project like this you've taken on? You need to think about everything, not just how your going to mount the motor. Are you going with an Ariel atom look or full car look? where is the body coming from. Suspension type, steering, interior, braking, every single aspect needs to be addressed before you start tossing stuff together. Look at Factory 5 racing, they are some of the nicest kit cars around. Just because you have someone that can build the chassis and you have a great deal on a engine/drivetrain, don't discount the fact that this will be expensive.

All that being said, read, and research. Its going to be custom if you do it, so there are no rules.....just make sure you have all the pieces to the puzzle first before you start putting it together. You might end up dumping loads of money into it and it'll never get finished.

Also look at AVI racing.........

[M-technik-3]

My buddy is building a Factory Five GTM right now. He just sourced a 911 gearbox so with some luck by spring it will be all done. He's using a Z06 engine.

The sad thing about the Porsche gear box is the $$$$$ they cost.

[LJ851]

Great idea, seriously. It's a lot of work (of course) and a capable transaxle will prob cost 5X what the LSX costs. Or more.

Mid engine transaxles generally connect to the shifter through complex linkage that enters from the rear (ahem).

[10Toes]

You might as well make it AWD at the same time and add some turbos

[Ryan...]

No bashing here, love the idea! But to get an idea...whats the biggest custom project like this you've taken on? You need to think about everything, not just how your going to mount the motor. Are you going with an Ariel atom look or full car look? where is the body coming from. Suspension type, steering, interior, braking, every single aspect needs to be addressed before you start tossing stuff together. Look at Factory 5 racing, they are some of the nicest kit cars around. Just because you have someone that can build the chassis and you have a great deal on a engine/drivetrain, don't discount the fact that this will be expensive.

All that being said, read, and research. Its going to be custom if you do it, so there are no rules.....just make sure you have all the pieces to the puzzle first before you start putting it together. You might end up dumping loads of money into it and it'll never get finished.

Also look at AVI racing.........

My list of custom projects includes..... just about nothing lol
I've worked on a custom trike my dad built in the late 70's using VW parts, helped build a custom chopper (I only worked on the motor and running wires basically), and that's about it :/

Trust me, I know there is a TON of stuff that needs to be addressed, but I figure that if I cant even get the basics thought out, I may as well scrap the idea w/o worrying about the smaller things :rofl:

And to answer the body question, it would be more along the lines of the atom; only the basic, necessary body work would be made. I have an uncle that is very capable with body work and laying fiberglass, but he's busy enough that I'm sure it would be years before he had time to spend helping me.

Also, I was thinking, since the car is still there, with all the driveline and suspension intact, I would think using those parts would be ideal. The struts/springs (or aftermarket springs/struts), steering rack, etc.. would all be carried over, or at least as much of it as possible.

My buddy is building a Factory Five GTM right now. He just sourced a 911 gearbox so with some luck by spring it will be all done. He's using a Z06 engine.

The sad thing about the Porsche gear box is the $$$$$ they cost.

I was looking for other options than Porsche, and I saw on a kit car forum that the guys in Europe love using the transaxle from these bad boys:

The Renault A160. It's rear engine, rwd, and apparently a lot of guys use these parts in their kit cars.



I have absolutely no idea what it would take to find the parts, or how much they'd cost, but it shows there ARE other options than Porsche and custom built parts.

Great idea, seriously. It's a lot of work (of course) and a capable transaxle will prob cost 5X what the LSX costs. Or more.

Mid engine transaxles generally connect to the shifter through complex linkage that enters from the rear (ahem).

Thanks for answering that, I figured it must be something like that but wasn't sure..



I should have specified, if this is something that we do eventually decide to try, it would be put together piece by piece, slowly, and probably with many changes and mistakes made ;)

[Q5Quint]

the sandrail guys do this all the time~





Just googled a second and found some guy was using this: Mendeola MD4S-2D Transaxle



http://www.californiaperformance.com/md4.htm

I am sure they run as much as a new transmission~ but since they have all kinds of sequential shifting and weird super high performance options I am sure the sky is the limit.

If you are trying to use cheapy used parts..... there are only a handful of cars that come with a rwd transaxle. A vw bug or porsche option exists...

Just found this website here: http://ranchotransaxles.com/mendeola-transaxles.html

Looks like that mendeola runs from 6k to 14k.

They have bug/bus transaxles and they are cheap: like 1400ish for the pro-sand version. I dont think it would like to have more than 300hp running through it though.



Read this thread about high hp bug axles- seems like for 3500ish you can get one that will hold 3-400 hp but for 1k more you can get the mendola that will handle 600hp.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vie....php?p=6458080

If you have the money to build a TIV that has a serious 400 HP then you need to find the money to buy a Mendola transaxle that will handle it. No Type I transaxle will last long and you'll be $3500 or more into a Bus transaxle that can handle it. For another $1000 you can get a Mendeloa gearbox that will handle 600 HP. Spend the money once on a Mendeloa and be done with it. After you buy your 2nd or 3rd $3000 gearbox you will wish you did.

A flipped R/P subaru box is also a possibility: http://www.subarugears.com
LSD's readily available for subaru boxes. Though you'll want an aftermarket gearset for that power level and it's unclear on their site if that is included in some of their full-build pricing options, you'd have to ask. Pricing probably somewhere between the two others.

Never thought about it but subarus also use a forward facing engine plus transaxle- and can handle 300-400hp, and also have awd. not sure if you could modify it so the fwd shaft comes out the other side but it would be worth a look.

http://www.subarugears.com/

That website can reverse cut everything so you can mount the thing back asswords and convert it to 2wd.... will still cost you a few gs though.

[Ryan...]

^^ damn, that's a helpful post :D

I gotta head to sleep soon, but luckily I sit around for 4 hours at work tonight so I'll have some time to read through all those links!

[11SportWagonX]

Mid engine kit car using LS engine and Porsche transaxle...

SuperLite Cars SLC Coupe



Stacy David actually built one of these on his show GearZ... you can find the episodes on Amazon Video, Hulu, maybe youtube...

[Vin-barrett]

There are two popular transaxles generally used for these swaps
Porsche G50 with flipped ring gear and the ZF 5 DS which came on the Pantera

You will notice both are pricey because they are hoarded by the kit car guys. See the GT40 kit cars for ideas.
I do know of a freshly rebuilt 5 DS-25 Pantera unit available, already converted to cable shift (shifter assembly included) but it will not be cheap. pm me if seriously interested.

[Mlarsen]

Those sandrails would be consider rear engine, not mid-engine.

[ForcedFirebird]

You already have the transaxle - just bolt the engine to the gearbox in a traditional fashion and you will have a mid engine.

[ForcedFirebird]

Those sandrails would be consider rear engine, not mid-engine.

Yes, but it doesn't take much to spin them around and use for mid engine.

[IronFreak]

You already have the transaxle - just bolt the engine to the gearbox in a traditional fashion and you will have a mid engine.

This is what you have. Engine up front, transaxle in the back. Corvette chassis are unlike most conventional cars. Like forcedfirebird said, remove the middle man if you will, and just bolt the engine to the transaxle. Boom problem solved...