Nasieg 5 lug installed - tips/pearls

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  • diesekte
    E30 Addict
    • Sep 2013
    • 417

    #1

    Nasieg 5 lug installed - tips/pearls

    I just installed this about 2 weeks ago but haven't driven on it a whole lot - car has been laid up due to oil pan gasket/motor mount/E46 ZHP rack project. First impressions though....I'm not sure if its my wonky rear brake lines (more on that later) but when i push the pedal i get about 2 inches of travel where nothing happens, a 1" or so "sweet spot", then past that, I'm about to get launched into the stratosphere from braking so hard. Needless to stay the brakes are quite powerful. 2 days after installing this someone in a CTSV cut me off and slammed their brakes on, and had I been on stock brakes I'm convinced I'd be parting my car out right now.

    My setup consists of E46 M3 front rotors and calipers
    E39 540i aluminum calipers
    E46 325i rear rotors
    225/45/17 front
    235/40/17 rear
    17x8.5" ET40 wheels
    10mm spacer front
    15mm spacer rear

    I barely clear the strut tube up front...few mm - I definitely wouldn't go less than 10mm. I have enough clearance up front out laterally. However, I have the THR eyeball arms and I'm on billy sports and IE-S3 springs with E90 drop hats. I rub the inner fender lip with the outside edge of the tire preeeetty hard. I have since converted back to stock lollipops with AKG centered bushings since I feel decreasing the caster (boooo I know) should solve the problem, but I haven't had a chance to drive the car since the change. I need juuuust a bit of clearance since you can turn the wheel "past" the rubbing if you get my drift.
    I haven't tried it but my next step would be going to 235/40/17 up front, but I don't think I would have enough lateral clearance of the wheel to the fender. If I rolled what little there is up front and went to a wider spacer, I think it would look like one of those mini trucks with mad poke yo, and I'm not ready to airbrush a virgin mary on my hood just yet.

    In the rear, you can make it without using a spacer at all if you roll the lips a tiny bit, but you will barely clear the trailing arm. I rolled my inner fender lips almost flat and ran a 15mm spacer. It looks really good and handles great.

    Things you will (probably) need:
    30mm socket
    36mm socket
    46mm socket
    Slide hammer and bearing puller attachment
    Harbor freight front wheel bearing tool
    I strongly recommend running wheel studs if you plan on using spacers
    4-8x M12x32 bolts and lock nuts depending on if you reuse your old bolts
    4-8x M10x32 bolts and lock nuts
    BFH (3+lb sledge)
    rubber mallet
    breaker bar
    beer


    Front:
    follow the guides you can find anywhere about getting to the front wheel bearing. If you're as lucky as me, the inner bearing race will stay put. I used a dremel to carefully cut a notch on the thicker part closer to the car, then stuck a flathead in that notch and rubber malleted away.
    Next you will put the sleeve adapter, then the wheel bearing assembly, then tighten down the spindle nut. Someone correct me if wrong but I think its 210 ft/lb.
    Then you will put the rotor spacer, then the rotor centering ring, then the rotor.
    Some photos of the front assembly care of jb325is can be seen here:

    To bolt up the calipers you're going to need to either totally remove or dremel out a spot of the dust cover. I couldn't get the dust cover bent into shape where it would clear both the rotor and the tie rod, so I just cut a piece off. The tie rod doesn't make contact with the rotor, it was just difficult to clear both with the way/shape the steel is stamped.

    difference between stock and new rotor:


    Rear:
    follow directions you can find many places for removing wheels bearings - this job is a PITA. Messing around with getting the halfshafts in/out of the hubs took up 90% of the total time this project took.
    I tried multiple tools and in the end what really worked best for me was the Harbor Freight front wheel bearing kit. It was 95$ after coupon and made the job a snap. A different bearing puller, the pipe/BFH method, and a slide hammer all failed me, but this tool made this step take about 30 minutes.
    http://www.harborfreight.com/fwd-fro...ers-66829.html
    You will definitely have to modify your rear dust covers as well. This is about how mine look, though I think i actually had to take a little more off the top than this pic shows


    This is a good time to rebuild your halfshafts or diff, or replace your leaking output shaft seals.

    I tried 500 different things and what finally got the halfshafts back in for me:
    make sure they are 100% clean
    Gently file in between the splines if needed with a small file
    clean clean clean
    turn a can of compressed air upside down and hose the hell out of the splined end for a good 20-30 seconds rotating it as you go
    grease/lube the splined portion of the hub
    make sure the halfshaft and hub splines are aligned (should be able to push in at least 1/2" or so by hand) and keep pressure on the halfshaft like you're trying to push it into the hub
    Gently-ish circumferentially pound the face of the hub with a rubber mallet until threads are visible on the halfshaft
    attach the axle nut and tighten it to pull the rest of the halfshaft in

    One question I still have is what's up with the rear lines? The e30 lines are too short for the 540i aluminum calipers since the hole is on the side, not on top like the front rotors. My 540i rotors came with their original rubber line attached, which will screw into the e30 rear hardlines, however it puts a bit more stress on the line and a weird bend I'm not too keen on. At this point I have: e30 hardline -> e30 rear SS braided line -> rubber 540i line -> caliper. It's too long this way and makes a looping bend I don't like either. It's not at an acute angle or anything which is cool, but its quite long and just kind of flops/hangs out behind the shock.
    What is everyone else doing?
    Complete rear, you can kind of see what I mean with the lines:


    Finished product:
    Last edited by diesekte; 02-06-2015, 11:47 AM.
  • LoneWolf
    E30 Addict
    • Jan 2012
    • 402

    #2
    Sweet install, I have this kits sitting on the work bench. It will be sitting there for a bit I think.

    How much clearance do you have on the front calipers? 17" wheel right?

    Comment

    • diesekte
      E30 Addict
      • Sep 2013
      • 417

      #3
      Hard to say exactly as the car is at a friends place right now, but definitely enough. Half inch or so? No way to run anything smaller than 17s with the e46 m3 front brakes though for sure

      Comment

      • mr2peak
        R3VLimited
        • Aug 2008
        • 2388

        #4
        Sounds like you need to install a larger master cylinder
        Drive it hard. Maintain it well.


        Convertible Technical & Discussion
        A Topless Memorandum

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        • diesekte
          E30 Addict
          • Sep 2013
          • 417

          #5
          I don't think with this kit people are upgrading their masters. What would I use anyway, the 25mm from the 750iL? I didn't think that would work for me - I'm using an ix booster.
          I thought it was most likely related to the rear lines as 1) they are so freaking long, especially compared to the fronts, and 2) 70% of the soft line is the e39 rubber line, and there is clearly a somewhat decent amount of flex in the line when depressing the pedal

          Comment

          • Dj Buttchug
            R3V OG
            • Jun 2010
            • 7632

            #6
            "I'm not sure if its my wonky rear brake lines (more on that later) but when i push the pedal i get about 2 inches of travel where nothing happens, a 1" or so "sweet spot", then past that, I'm about to get launched into the stratosphere from braking so hard."

            This right here leads me to believe theres a brake bias issue with the set up. Master change might be the only way to correct it but you need to figure out what your bias is now with the new hardware

            Turbo M42 Build Thread :Here
            Ig:ryno_pzk
            I like the tuna here.
            Originally posted by lambo
            Buttchug. The official poster child of r3v.

            Comment

            • mr2peak
              R3VLimited
              • Aug 2008
              • 2388

              #7
              People have done the math on the for sale thread, bias is super super close to stock.

              I'm sure you need a larger master. The caliper piston size is a lot bigger, so it takes a lot more fluid to move the pistons and pads into contact with the rotor. With the stock e30 master, you have a huge mechanical advantage because of the length of movement, and that leverage produces the "launched into the stratosphere" feeling. With a larger master you should also have less of a biting effect (easier modulation) and that "sweet spot" will be easier to find and take up a larger portion of your leg effort.

              Ignoring heat fade, larger brakes should work better due to an increase in swept area, not an increase in hydrolic leverage. If it was simply a leverage issue, everyone would be trying to install a smaller master cylinder.

              I've been through the same issues mixing and matching hydraulic brakes on downhill bikes. 100% the same principle.

              There's a reason the donor cars for the brake package have larger masters fitted as standard. :)

              And thanks for the write up!
              Drive it hard. Maintain it well.


              Convertible Technical & Discussion
              A Topless Memorandum

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              • diesekte
                E30 Addict
                • Sep 2013
                • 417

                #8
                Thanks for the input guys.
                So - will the 25mm 750iL master work with the iX booster? Or is there another master I can use if that won't work? I'm not too keen on changing out the booster if I can avoid it.

                Comment

                • Wanganstyle
                  R3VLimited
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 2828

                  #9
                  simple logic:

                  booster: vacuum assist device; it does not determine how much fluid is being sent through the braking system-


                  need: larger bore master cylinder; just compare the piston size of the brake calipers you installed to the piston size of the calipers you removed........

                  if you want to properly operate the installed e46m /e39-540 calipers you need to have a master cylinder that is similar to:

                  a e46m3 master cylinder
                  or a e39 540i master cylinder

                  some time spent on real oem or the rock auto website will let you know what the target MC bore size is.
                  OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

                  Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



                  Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

                  Comment

                  • mr2peak
                    R3VLimited
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 2388

                    #10
                    E46 M3 uses a 25mm master so that should work.

                    You also have to take the pedal leverage ratio into account. Not sure what the pedal ratio is on the E46.

                    Ideally, you can mod the pedal to have an adjustable pedal ratio, like the wildwood pedal box. This would allow you to eventually get it perfect for your car.

                    You should also, ideally, install a brake bias adjuster. Just because this kit comes close to the stock ratio doesn't mean that it's the correct ratio when you have much larger brakes installed. You need to make sure that the fronts lock up before the rears or you will end up spinning the car.
                    Drive it hard. Maintain it well.


                    Convertible Technical & Discussion
                    A Topless Memorandum

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                    • mr2peak
                      R3VLimited
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 2388

                      #11
                      Summit Racing had fairly inexpensive bias adjuster btw.
                      Drive it hard. Maintain it well.


                      Convertible Technical & Discussion
                      A Topless Memorandum

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                      • diesekte
                        E30 Addict
                        • Sep 2013
                        • 417

                        #12
                        I had been looking at the e32 750il master which is 25mm. The reason I was bringing up the ix booster is because, at least on Turner's page for the 750il master it says "not for ix", but doesn't say exactly what the issue is. Does anyone know if the 750 master works with the ix booster?
                        Last edited by diesekte; 02-08-2015, 09:08 PM.

                        Comment

                        • mr2peak
                          R3VLimited
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 2388

                          #13
                          It doesn't fit. Check out the 24v swap forum for details. It's a problem with the mounting bolts.

                          If you have an IX, you might need to swap out to a more common smaller booster, 944 or similar in order to fit the larger master. I'm not very fluent in IX, so definitely do a bit more searching beforehand.
                          Drive it hard. Maintain it well.


                          Convertible Technical & Discussion
                          A Topless Memorandum

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                          • diesekte
                            E30 Addict
                            • Sep 2013
                            • 417

                            #14
                            Ah - I found the thread. The ix booster bolts are too big for the master.
                            It looks like the e32 735 master (34331156978) works with the ix booster.
                            I actually have a 24v IS, but the previous owner used an ix booster. I'd rather keep the same booster as it works fine and I'm substantially over budget at the moment lol.

                            Now - any idea about the rear brake lines? Is there any solution short of a custom line? My other thought was finding e39 SS rears (if possible) and just screwing them into the e30 SS rear lines like I have now. But that doesn't solve the length issue.

                            Comment

                            • mr2peak
                              R3VLimited
                              • Aug 2008
                              • 2388

                              #15
                              Why don't the E30 lines work? Just wondering.
                              Drive it hard. Maintain it well.


                              Convertible Technical & Discussion
                              A Topless Memorandum

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