MarkD chip

[O 16581 72452 5]

So let me get this straight; you're saying:
1) His chip is better than the others
2) His chip is cheaper than ALL the other legit chip sellers

Yet you're still asking him to drop his price? Do you realize what goes into making a chip; how many years of expertise and learning nevermind the actual dyno costs and associated costs?

I know you're looking to combat the clone chips and all but I'm sure marking the price any lower really stops making it worth it for Mark. And its for that reason that we're suffering as a community by not having things such as a MAF chip for an m20 or some things I've been begging Mark to do for s50 motors.

I know what goes in to making a chip, i've written them for Hondas and studied them. I don't know what he's using to write the program for the chips, but there's programs like Crome and Uberdata that guys make and give out for free.

Anyway, once the program is written, spend say $300 on dyno time to give a good tune to an M20 engine which maybe he has, or maybe he asked a friend to let him borrow it, $40-$100 on a chip burner depending how well it looks ($40 is for the kind with no casing), $5 a piece or so for an PROM chip and let's just assume he already has a laptop or if he bought one to do chips, let's assume he uses it for more than just making chips, therefore not part of the money in to the chip.

Total invested: $400 and $5 per new chip.

Profit is after two chips were sold.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

When a chip is $250 and a clone is $50, i rather just buy the clone and risk it being a JC or Dinan copy and like i said, for maybe $100-$125 shipped, i'd gladly give the guy money for the thing to know it's legit and will do what those dyno graphs show.

Obviously the people are making profit copying the chips and that's all Mark has to do now that he has the program written, if they're making profit from $50 shipped, Mark would be making more profit than them for $125 shipped.

Hell, maybe just have a month long special for that price to see what happens, i'd certainly buy one insted of a used or cloned one because that's the only way i'd buy one of these chips.

[NickP]

I understand your price compared to other's, i also understand your chip is better than the others. I'm not the one selling chips though, i don't know how much actual profit you make on the chips, but like i said, the reason i don't have one is because they're so expensive.

I say drop your price and see if you make more or less money, but that's my opinion, i think people would be more inclined to buy your product for say $100-$150 shipped to get the real deal and maybe people would shy away from the clones.

So let me get this straight; you're saying:
1) His chip is better than the others
2) His chip is cheaper than ALL the other legit chip sellers

Yet you're still asking him to drop his price? Do you realize what goes into making a chip; how many years of expertise and learning nevermind the actual dyno costs and associated costs?

I know you're looking to combat the clone chips and all but I'm sure marking the price any lower really stops making it worth it for Mark. And its for that reason that we're suffering as a community by not having things such as a MAF chip for an m20 or some things I've been begging Mark to do for s50 motors.

[O 16581 72452 5]

My chips are cheaper than any other non-cloned chip out there, Turner chips are $249 and up and dyno charts of my m20 chip compared to theirs shows a significant increase. Don't think I'm getting rich selling chips, I'd do much better just returning to firmware development on new products.

I understand your price compared to other's, i also understand your chip is better than the others. I'm not the one selling chips though, i don't know how much actual profit you make on the chips, but like i said, the reason i don't have one is because they're so expensive.

I say drop your price and see if you make more or less money, but that's my opinion, i think people would be more inclined to buy your product for say $100-$150 shipped to get the real deal and maybe people would shy away from the clones.

[MarkD]

They're no different, it's just the moral issue, it's basically like copying a CD, they make a mirror and burn it to a chip.

I'd spend the extra for the real deal if it didn't cost so damn much.

My chips are cheaper than any other non-cloned chip out there, Turner chips are $249 and up and dyno charts of my m20 chip compared to theirs shows a significant increase. Don't think I'm getting rich selling chips, I'd do much better just returning to firmware development on new products.

[JPL]

mine is supposed to be in the mail. i'm really excited. i called mark-d the other day and he's a really cool guy except for the Canadian accent. wink. (how come i couldn't find any of the smiley faces for my message. its not as good reading wink than seeing it. damnit)

[PeaveyBassist]

Well... then you dont own one lol. Save up the dough.

Will

[O 16581 72452 5]

I know what they cost, and that's why i don't own one. If they were $100 like they were worth IMO, i'd gladly fork it over.

[PeaveyBassist]

I really don't think $200+ for a chip is unreasonable at all. Thats what the JimC chip has been going for for a LONG time and it used to be the "best" out there.

Will

[E30 Cabrio]

They're no different, it's just the moral issue, it's basically like copying a CD, they make a mirror and burn it to a chip.

I'd spend the extra for the real deal if it didn't cost so damn much.

At what point is the R&D invenstment returned, and at what point is the customer getting gouged?

$200+ for a chip sounds a bit excessive, not to mention, they would sell a lot more of them if they cost $100.00

Perhaps their marketing research says different, but logic says make the price affordable to all,and you will sell more product.

It's a matter of principle than price for me though.

[O 16581 72452 5]

They're no different, it's just the moral issue, it's basically like copying a CD, they make a mirror and burn it to a chip.

I'd spend the extra for the real deal if it didn't cost so damn much.

[E30 Cabrio]

I understand that time and money goes into R&D, but the clones are pretty much the same thing as the "real" chip, aren't they?

I also understand the position the vendors are in, as they spend the time and money to develop the chip, but if someone copies their work and sells it, it's the same chip, right?

Also, we see the perfmance gains exaggerated by some vendors as well.

Does vendor post the real numbers/gains that these chips produce?

[O 16581 72452 5]

They are not high priced, the others are just low priced since someone is copying a good chip and selling it, without the development costs invested to create a good chip. With a clone chip, you can't even be sure what it's a clone of. One reason that some of the chips I had planned to release in 2006 were not released is because I know people have cloned some of my chips. That's why there was no MAF conversion chip released (it was planned for July 2006). That's also why I have not released an s14 chip, even though a version for the 2.5l s14 has undergone a lot of testing on the racetrack and won a few races.

Would you mind making a break down of the costs in developing your chips? If you'd like to take it to PMs, that's fine, i don't mean to shit on your product by any means because people are buying it and they're all very satisfied with it. But i think your price is just a tad high, seems to me the cost in developing it would be around $50 for a chip burner (maybe up to $200 for a really good one), the time you spent on a dyno adjusting the maps, i'm not sure what you used for software, perhaps wrote your own? And $5ish for a chip. I'm no chipping expert, but you should've made close to your money back in the first chip, the rest would be profits, i'd love to buy one of your chips, but $250 is just way too much IMO, i'd gladly pay $100-$125 shipped however. Might make a little more, i'd be less inclined to want to buy a clone and i'm sure others would feel the same way.

[MarkD]

What's the difference between these high priced chips and the far less expensive clones?

They are not high priced, the others are just low priced since someone is copying a good chip and selling it, without the development costs invested to create a good chip. With a clone chip, you can't even be sure what it's a clone of. One reason that some of the chips I had planned to release in 2006 were not released is because I know people have cloned some of my chips. That's why there was no MAF conversion chip released (it was planned for July 2006). That's also why I have not released an s14 chip, even though a version for the 2.5l s14 has undergone a lot of testing on the racetrack and won a few races.

[O 16581 72452 5]

Any comparison with the Dinan chip? Very disappointed with the JC chip i was considering after seeing it actually lost horsepower over a stock one.

[E30 Cabrio]

What's the difference between these high priced chips and the far less expensive clones?