Should I swap my S14 for an S50b32

[junkyard_sal]

Let's hear the pros and cons. I know it will make more reliable HP and torque but there are a number of people chiming in that the handling issues are non-trivial and that the lesser powered car is actually quicker around the track.

I have a limping cylinder in my 2.5L S14. I can swap in a used but solid 2.3L or go whole hog on the S50b32.

The car will be a Daily Driver and Driving school car.

I have to have AC as a complication so even more weight on the front axle.

Thanks for the opinion.

Carl

[s14realm3]

it comes down to 2 things: money and how much do you like the S14. S14=money, no if ands or buts. I had owned my e30 m3 since new and its been tracked for 10 years. After I blew my first engine and see the cost of a used motor. I brought myself a dedicated track car and took my m3 off track duty. I love the S14 and if I had time and money, I would run it on track forever and spend $15K on a race motor, BUT since I don't, I use mine as as a spare DD. S50/52 is so much cheaper to run once you get past the swap cost. My suggestion is to find local guys with conversions already done and ask to drive their cars and get a feel of it. Handling can be fixed with suspension mods and the extra front weight can be somewhat offset by getting a carbon/fiberglass hood. There are many m3 running around with conversion done, makes the value of the s14 go up.

[gobuffs]

I wouldn't say the S50 makes more reliable HP and torque, but I would say that to get the same level of power out of an S14 it would take a lot more money for the S14.

An S50B32 swap at this point in time doesn't make the most sense. If I were to do it at this point in time, I would do an S54. Either way you look at it, you are looking at a minimum of $10k.

Handling is not an issue IMO.

The number of people that get AC to work in a swap car is fairly low...but I don't pay that much attention to it as I don't have AC.

[GK-E30M3]

i think he is talking about euro s50b32

[FredK]

gobuffs has an S50B32, aka Euro S50.

[e30polak]

Pros of the s14:

1. You keep the weight distribution and handling characteristics that the e30 m3 is known for.

2. You have a high revving 4 cylinder engine that sounds godly with an alpha-n airbox.

3. You get more respect from fellow e30 m3 owners for keeping the original heart of the beast.

Cons:

1. Lack of torque.

2. An expensive motor that doesn't make enough power in my mind to make the 2.5 build worth it.

3. Maintenance costs.

Pros of the s50b32:

1. You get one of the best inline 6 motors ever built!

2. 300+ hp, TORQUE!, dual vanos, 7600 rev limit, an intoxicating exhaust note, an even more intoxicating intake sound if you go alpha-n.

3. A motor that makes much more reliable power for the money.

4. You'll get respect from everyone for your motor, not just the e30 m3 guys.

5. 6 speed gear-box

Cons:

1. Weight distribution and handling characteristics are altered due to the added weight over the nose of the car.

2. Dual-vanos is known top be problematic.

3. Unless you can perform the transplant yourself, it will cost you extra to have the motor swapped in.

If I had the money I would build a cammed s50b32 with and alpha-n airbox. With this setup in an e30 m3, coupled with the right suspension and bigger brakes, you can destroy most of the cars on the road worth up to $100k! :woowoo:

[StereoInstaller1]

Carl, not that my opinion matters to anyone...but the real M3s are getting more and more rare.

Keep it original.

Go buy an E30 to build a track car with. You get mad props with a S50B32/6 speed AND an M3.

GL!
Luke

[FredK]

What's wrong with rebuilding the 2.5L? I sorta glossed over your thread over on s14.net, which is down at the moment. Sure, if you don't have a worked head, you won't see the full benefit from the engine, but it'll still give you more torque than the 2.3.

[gobuffs]

What's wrong with rebuilding the 2.5L? I sorta glossed over your thread over on s14.net, which is down at the moment. Sure, if you don't have a worked head, you won't see the full benefit from the engine, but it'll still give you more torque than the 2.3.

Agreed. Need to figure out the diagnosis on the 2.5 before scrapping it. Could be not that big of a deal. Depending on the pistons- add some cams, AN, and CF intake and you will be only a few HP short of an S50B32.

[Jason89i]

S14 - expect to pay serious dough to get 250rwhp out of an s14. Awesome on the track, not really a daily driver.

I personally hate the s14 on the street. Gutless, whiney, buzzy little motor that makes it LOOK like you want to race everyone. You really have to spin the s14 to get the car to move.... and this .... attracts every honda within a 2 mile radius. Not fun. BUT, what an absolute delight on the track. keep it above 5500 and you will be repaid with a LOT of point-by's. In my opinion, thats where it belongs.

S50 - I do think handling is an issue. Awesome torque for the street, handling suffers on track. My 2.5l was nearly 2 seconds faster (2 mile track) than my s50b32. The weight difference is more than just the added 60lbs.... its amplified by location of weight. BUT, the sheer torque is VERY addictive. Tap the right foot ..... mundaine to jail time in about 3 seconds.

Each car has its plusses and minuses.

Carl has a rebuilt 2.5l that is consuming oil. Im guessing the cheapest way out would be to just fix the motor. But, if you want a s50b32, get an s50b32. Either way, there are plusses and minuses. Dont worry about what other people think. Its your car, find the solution that YOU will enjoy.

Cheers, Jason

[M-technik-3]

The car is at the shop already correct? Have they torn into it yet? Mine 2.5L was picked up Friday and was delivered yesterday. Yet I won't be home to start on it till? ____ TACC is fucking with us as normal.

I was gonna do S50 to start while I found out what's up with the 2.5 bottom end then Install the correct engine but I might just install my spare S14 and leave the 282K S14 in my Zinno car. It's running without issues so why mess with it right.

I guess I'll hunt down a spare head and have VAC do a stage II on it and then add the Fiberglass airbox and the Autronic as my loom should be done once i get home.

I say let them determine why it;s using excessive oil then go from there. The S14 is not gutless aka (torque less) It just takes coaking a few more thousand revs which as we know sound awesome.

Since my old black E30 Jstock has succumbed to ferrous oxide it will donate all the parts as a temp s50 swap for my alpine weiss M.

[m3_eater]

I'm so torn on this issue, having experienced the joys of both. Honestly, I gotta (and this is close) throw my hat in the ring with the s14 guys. Keep your E30 M3 original. You can buy a clean chassis in the south and swap an s50b32 into that for street fun.

BTW, if you are determined to use your M3 primarily on the street, my vote changes to doing the swap. You will positively LOVE the torque and HP of a properly tuned swap car.

[Bimmerman325i]

I say stick with the S14. I give massive props for those who kept and/or build their S14s....S50 swaps, though awesome, don't seem in keeping with its character.

[Jason89i]

The ......... The S14 is not gutless aka (torque less) It just takes coaking a few more thousand revs which as we know sound awesome. ....

very nice 2.5l s14 (still with afm) - 225 rwhp, my max torque was 175 ftlbs.

bone stock s50b32 (half the cost of the s14) - +/-285 rwhp, max torque +/-232 ftlbs.

ok, not that much different right.....
Well, the torque curve (or mountain) on an s14 starts at 110 - 125ft-lbs. (3k-3500.)
And, the torque curve (or plateau) on an s50b32 starts at 220 ftlbs (2500 rpms.)

Dont get me wrong...... the s14 is marvelous, it is fantastic on the track, it has its place firmly secured in history...... but (in my opinion) it IS torqueless. You need hp (not torque) to win races.... and the s14 was built like that. You need torque (below 3k) for a street car...... and the newer motors were built like that. They are very different animals.

cheers, jason

[junkyard_sal]

The diagnosis on my S14.

What's wrong with rebuilding the 2.5L? I sorta glossed over your thread over on s14.net, which is down at the moment. Sure, if you don't have a worked head, you won't see the full benefit from the engine, but it'll still give you more torque than the 2.3.

Here is the diagnosis of my 2.5L s14.

Here is an update to our findings, if you have any questions feel free to contact us.
#1 Cylinder has a piston ring and a leaking exhaust valve problem it showed 50 lbs less compression then all the other 3 cylinders.
Sparkplug on #1 cylinder showed a lot of oil burning on that plug, the sparkplug's look fairly new the center electrode is not worn and the porcelain shows no heat rings from the sparkplug connector.

When we scoped the cylinders through the sparkplug holes we found #1 piston top very clean # 2,3 and 4 are showing carbon buildup which is normal. Looks like #1 cylinder is being washed out by bypassing oil at the piston rings.

#2, #3, #4 solid compression and leakdown. But #1 is a worked.

Compression/leakdown
#1 160/50%
#2 210/<10%
#3 210/<10%
#4 210/<10%

Minor problems were oil pressure relief valve leaking and a bit sticky, oil pan small leak, small leak off exhaust header near timing chain tensioner. So when a motor has been pressure washed it is hard to see all of these things without a few hundred miles of driving.

I have contacted the seller to see if he is still game to help with the expenses.