FredK, you win. Or, am I on the right track?

[z31maniac]

Got the car wired up (and intake on etc,) and the headlights/windows/headlights/wipers etc all are working and the engine is cranking but we are getting no fuel, we pulled the hose off and it isn't putting any fuel in the line. We also put my new pump in just to be sure same result, so it isn't getting any power.

I don't know about spark as I haven't looked up how to check for spark on the 24v motor, but I will add that the Crank position sensor is new.

I'm 99.9% sure that all power/ground/engine harness is wired correctly, I think the DME is:

1. Not getting power because of a bad relay (my test light went bad and I don't have a multimeter yet, so I'm going to get another tomorrow).
2. The DME itself is bad.
3. ?????????

Am I on the right track?

[FredK]

Yep, that sounds like a good way to start your diagnostics. Remind me, what harness (E36/34) are you using, and what DME/chip are you using (Red/Silver/EWS delete?).

You should be able to see if your injector rail is getting power by pulling the electrical connector rail off and seeing if they are being powered or not.

How long has your car been sitting for? You can try jumping the fuel pump relay to see if the pump got stuck somehow just by sitting. You jump position 30 to 87 to get it to fire.

It takes a little cranking to get an engine to start on completely dry lines. Also, make sure you've attached the supply line to the silver hardline.

[z31maniac]

E36 harness
Red lable 413 with TRM chip
The car has been sitting since the 1st or 2nd week of Feb.

We did go ahead and put in the new fuel pump as well, and when you turn the key to "ON" you don't here the soft whine like you should if its coming on. Also the small rubber piece of fuel line that connects the fuel pump to the main hard line was dry when we pulled it out as well, so I'm pretty sure it's just not getting any juice. Did you mean to say maybe the relay got stuck (sorry don't know if that is even possible)?

As for the fuel lines (let's make sure I haven't made a noobtastic mistake here), the only connections disconnected were from the fuel rail itself, I didn't disconnect any farther back.

So from the M20 setup, the line with the FPR is the "Return line", correct? This is how I have it hooked up now, I left the original M20 FPR on the return line so I'd know which was correct until today. Then of course removed it and connected the line to the OBD-I rail.


I should also be able to stick a test light on the coil harness and see if I'm getting spark correct? Which of the 3 holes should I test?

[FredK]

Yes, fuel return is the line with the FPR. I was thinking maybe the pump got stuck, but I bet it's some electrical issue that isn't pump-related.

I am fairly certain that to test for injector rail voltage, you check the primary coil collapsing. These are the outside terminals on the coil.

This car should fire right up! I'm not sure what's going on here... do you have a 13 button OBC? I've heard of having some kind of floating voltage on the CODE relay causing a no-start before.

[z31maniac]

I do have a 13 button OBC and it does have a dead temp sensor and dim barely readable screen.

Should I try unplugging it?

I'm really thinking it has something to do with the DME or DME relay, possibly the Fuel Pump relay. That's the Blue one correct? The white is DME and the Orange is ??? not sure.

Does the DME have to be bolted down? IE, does the case need to be "grounded" to the chassis?

I also wonder if the engine block itself isn't grounded well enough? When you turn the key on you can feel a slight hum/vibration through the intake manifold that goes away a few seconds after you turn the key back off. I believe the only engine ground is the passenger side block to engine compartment nut, should I do one on the driver side as well?

[z31maniac]

Also the "Check Engine" light is on with the key in the "ON" position, but that could be the non-existant O2 sensor (Since I got sent the wrong one, again), but the car should still start without it.

[FredK]

Fuel pump relay is blue, I don't remember what the other relay colors are. When you turn the key, the ICV should buzz. That is probably what the slight hum and vibration is. The ICV is controlled by the DME, so the DME IS getting power.

The DME does need to be grounded, but I've seen cars with it hanging in midair start up. The block only needs one ground. Did you clean off the ground post on the passenger frame rail? Because the M20 uses the other driver's side post, if I recall correctly, and you need to remove some of that rubberized undercoating to expose bare metal there.

CEL should be illuminated along with oil pressure and all those other sensor lights, until the car starts. Car does not need an O2 to start.

[z31maniac]

I will double check that we cleaned off the ground tomorrow and if not, take the wire brush to it like crazy. I remember having to scrape some of it off to even get a socket on the nut, so I'll clean it like crazy tomorrow.

I know it's hard to diagnose over the Internet and not seeing it, but is this sounding like a Fuel Pump relay to you? Your suggestion is to jump the two terminals and see if the fuel pump comes on, if so we found the culprit?

I'm really pretty sure everything is hooked up correctly with the harness (I double and triple checked wire colors against the E30 DOHC WIKI page, although I know the most important is the Crank sensor).

And I'm assuming we got the unloader relay starter stuff right since all the windows and such work and the starter is turning over.

[z31maniac]

Oh shit, and let me throw this out there as well since it wasn't connected when I got the motor.

The two alternator leads, the "hot" red lead connects to the uppermost lug, and the "ground" blue lead connects to the lower lug?

[7pilot]

Here's my power take off for the e34 loom.

m

[FredK]

I know it's hard to diagnose over the Internet and not seeing it, but is this sounding like a Fuel Pump relay to you? Your suggestion is to jump the two terminals and see if the fuel pump comes on, if so we found the culprit?

This sounds like the DME is not grounded properly, somewhere. I bet if you jump the fuel pump relay it'll whirr, but it still won't start.

There's pretty much only one way to hook up the alternator. The large cable from Terminal 30 on the starter goes on the large M8 lug on the alternator.

So I think the way to go is, verify the fuel pump functions by jumping the relay, then check the coils to see if the DME is sending a fire signal. The M5x needs a minimum of things to squirt fuel and fire. It needs to know where it is (CKPS, not CPS, necessarily), it needs compression, it needs fuel (injectors grounding themselves), and it needs spark (coils collapsing). That might not be an exhaustive list, but it is the bare minimum of what's needed.

Check for DME power. I forgot what pin that is, it should read at battery voltage, though. Pin 1? Man I wish I had an ETM in front of me.

[z31maniac]

This sounds like the DME is not grounded properly, somewhere. I bet if you jump the fuel pump relay it'll whirr, but it still won't start.

There's pretty much only one way to hook up the alternator. The large cable from Terminal 30 on the starter goes on the large M8 lug on the alternator.

So I think the way to go is, verify the fuel pump functions by jumping the relay, then check the coils to see if the DME is sending a fire signal. The M5x needs a minimum of things to squirt fuel and fire. It needs to know where it is (CKPS, not CPS, necessarily), it needs compression, it needs fuel (injectors grounding themselves), and it needs spark (coils collapsing). That might not be an exhaustive list, but it is the bare minimum of what's needed.

Check for DME power. I forgot what pin that is, it should read at battery voltage, though. Pin 1? Man I wish I had an ETM in front of me.

I asked about the alternator because the "red lead" was missing it's lug so I had to take it to work to crimp a new one on. If I mistakenly had it hooked up backward, what issue would that cause?

Going to jump the fuel pump relay now, clean off passenger side ground stud and make sure my harness ground is secure.

[z31maniac]

Jumping fuel pump relay did not work, cleaned up engine ground and it seemed to turn over stronger.

What pins to jump DME relay or is that a bad idea?

[z31maniac]

Fuse #11 is the fuel pump fuse? It should be a 15 amp fuse since I have the late model in-tank pump correct?

What is fuse #30? It is blown....

[z31maniac]

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

Can you say mothafucking noobtastic?

There was no fuse in the fuse block for the fuel pump. Ran to the parts store and got one, put it in, and the fucking engine fired right up and settled down into nice growling idle.

GOing to put coolant in the car, tidy up a coupe of vacuum hoses, fill up the trans, wire up the fan and take it off the jackstands and see if the motherfucker actually drives.

Still some work to do but god damn did it feel good to hear that thing start up!