swap vs e36 m3

[Bimmerman325i]

I agree. My E30's not swapped, so I'm going on what I've observed and read.

[Fusion]

Question is, if you do an S50 or M50 swap in an E30 318 for example, why the hell would you keep stock suspension and brakes?

The E36 M3 is pretty much a 10k$ full fledged race/track car. You can't compare it to a 2500$ home made swap. I would agree to compare it to some of the high budget swapped E30s people have upgraded for track use, ie. sways, big brake kits, GC susp. etc etc. I'd love to see that comparison.

Here's a vid to think about (yea, I know the driver of the m3 could be a douchebag, let's not get into that)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx-uX1zzlCw

The M3 euro S50 with its 1400kgs should be around 205bhp/ton
If the E30 S50 really weighs just 820kgs, that's almost 350bhp/ton

That E30 has to win every straight line race.

[Bimmerman325i]

that's the comparison that was being made........ if the only difference is the s50/e30 vs s5xUS motor e36 m3 combos, the e36 will be faster overall, while the e30 faster on the straights. I don't care if both cars are on stock shocks or both on moton quads, stock brakes vs performance frictions-- if the comparison is between comparable on paper setup cars with equal drivers or the same driver, the E36 will be faster. The e30 will be quicker on the straights.

I think your perception of the M3 is wrong too........ it's definitely not an out of the box track car in the states.

Regardless, bench racing is bench racing. The m/s50 adds weight where the e30 really doesn't need it, which is detrimental to handling.

I remember reading on here a member's post on his E30 M3's motors and their speeds around the track. He had a 2.5L S14 that he yanked for an S50B32, and didn't go any faster around the track. Same car. Same driver. Same everything else, about 80-100hp more, and no faster lap times.

[Bimmerman325i]

Here's a vid to think about (yea, I know the driver of the m3 could be a douchebag, let's not get into that)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx-uX1zzlCw

The M3 euro S50 with its 1400kgs should be around 205bhp/ton
If the E30 S50 really weighs just 820kgs, that's almost 350bhp/ton

That E30 has to win every straight line race.

Yea the E30 statistics are total bullshit. 820kg is 1800 lbs. Most E30 S50s are around 2700-2800lbs (1200kg or so). NO E30 is 1800lbs or 820 kg.

Straight line once the car is rolling, yes it will win. From a stop, the E36 will edge it out initially since the E30 rear isn't good at putting power down. For proof, find drag times for any swapped E30. They're not as good as the power to weight ratio would suggest. From a roll though, totally different story.

[Fusion]

This hill climb 320is is around 820kgs, it is possible, an S50 would be +50~ keys.
But yes, you make good points.

Oh and the numbers above I counted US S50, the Euro would be a bit higher (pretty sure the vid is Euro).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAI1iLRexLM

[Charlie]

Mostly stock E36 M3s do not walk away from my 2.5 vanos M50 with a 3.73 rear end on the track. Car sits at about ~2520 with a rollbar in it, this is with 205s. Tossing on some wider rubber and I'd say it's safe to say you can eat an E36 M3.

-Charlie

[etxxz]

Having done a bunch of track time in e30s and e36s... I will never go back to e30s.

+1

sadly, after having done just a few DE's on a e36 i think the same. Thankfully, my e30 has been kicking the shit out of equally sometimes better hp'd & suspensioned e36.. then again my e30 IS an e36 with an e30 body ~ s52, e36m brakes, e36 DS1 rims on 245/40-17 NT01, e36 front and rear suspension blah blah blah its an e36 except for how it drives :p

..when i started it was cheaper to go e30 and i accumulated parts and time...over time!

[samiam3356]

+1

sadly, after having done just a few DE's on a e36 i think the same. Thankfully, my e30 has been kicking the shit out of equally sometimes better hp'd & suspensioned e36.. then again my e30 IS an e36 with an e30 body ~ s52, e36m brakes, e36 DS1 rims on 245/40-17 NT01, e36 front and rear suspension blah blah blah its an e36 except for how it drives :p

..when i started it was cheaper to go e30 and i accumulated parts and time...over time!

I am hoping for this! Coming up on a year since I bought my car and so far it's basically been turned into an e36. OBD1 S52 with e36m brakes, only thing not e36 is the tranny of which I will turn to a zf whenever time and money permits.

[Wh33lhop]

+1

sadly, after having done just a few DE's on a e36 i think the same. Thankfully, my e30 has been kicking the shit out of equally sometimes better hp'd & suspensioned e36.. then again my e30 IS an e36 with an e30 body ~ s52, e36m brakes, e36 DS1 rims on 245/40-17 NT01, e36 front and rear suspension blah blah blah its an e36 except for how it drives :p

..when i started it was cheaper to go e30 and i accumulated parts and time...over time!

You're missing the most important part of the E36 suspension--the Z-link rear. The 318ti is basically an E30 with an E36 body.

[rattlsnak]

Mostly stock E36 M3s do not walk away from my 2.5 vanos M50 with a 3.73 rear end on the track. Car sits at about ~2520 with a rollbar in it, this is with 205s. Tossing on some wider rubber and I'd say it's safe to say you can eat an E36 M3.

-Charlie

This is interesting and different than most on here say.

The point of this thread was because I have an e30 which will get swapped here in the next two weeks or so, but I ran across a few high mileage e36 M3's for close to the same price as it will cost to complete the e30 (including the big brakes, suspension, etc) so now I'm wondering which way to go.

This being because I assume that a swapped e30 m50 would be quicker than a 'regular' e36 325.

[Wh33lhop]

Charlie also has some decent weight reduction going on, 2500lbs 190hp E30 vs. 3200lbs 240hp E36 M3 would be a good race.

[325issguy]

I would have to say my m52 would likely not have a problem walking on a e36 m3 unless it was straight from a dig. I have raced a few e46 m3 convertables on the interstate and the outcome was the same against both, about even through 3rd with me pulling maybe half a car length, then me pulling about the same maybe a bit harder with my back bumper at their front bumper by the end of 4th. However, the advantage of an e30 is the tossability of it, I can put the car exactly where i want.

[F34R]

They both are awesome!

I am doing an m50v, s50cams, chip, under pulleys with 2 1/2 exhaust/cat delete with headers.

I also bought a garrett turbo for it next year after I get everything the way I want. I know for a fact no E36, E46 m3 will walk me ever. I don't know about the new 4.4 M3. I got to start one up but the dealer would not let me go out because it was raining:(

P.S. does anyone know a site that you can buy the alum intake manny? I cannot find one.

[turbo325i]

This is a good topic.

The e30 is definitely appealing because of the low cost... But you can easily put a lot of $ into them.

The e36 comes with a higher price tag, and is heavier, but has advantages in its suspension design and brakes.

You will never get your $ back out of the e30 after you swap it and do big brakes & suspension /5-lug ect.

The e36 is a real ///m and has a higher re-sale value.

It really comes down to what you want to do with the vehicle, but the smart $ is in the e36 m3. right dan? ;)

[Bimmerman325i]

The great irony of this is that even though I have an M3, and bought it because it cost less than what it would cost to build the E30 into a swap/coilover'd/bbk'd monster, I am still swapping my E30 and doing all the fun goodies.

Logic doesn't win over charisma.