88' 24V Swap, complete teardown and rebuild: Imput?

[Blackangusinc]

Hi there folks,

I've got a 1988 325iS that is in line to get a complete strip, repaint and replacement or rebuild of every major component. This car is a project for a project's sake and I intend to sell it after I'm done. I'm a perfectionist with an insatiable love for E30s. I just want to build an awesome car that people are really going to want.

Right now, I'm looking for input on engine and color. Originally I planned to do an M52TUB28 turbo swap. I wanted to stay away from the iron blocks in order to bring the front rear weight ratio closer to 50/50. Now I'm looking at various N/A S50 options, and the S54 in particular. I figure I can rescue the weight balance with a fuel cell or something. Euro engines are not an option as I don't happen to be made of money. Speaking of money, I know I'm not going to make a profit, but I'd like to get most, if not all, of my money out of it. What do y'all think? Can I recoup the cash dropped on a non-rebuilt, stock, low miles S54?

Now to color. Stock, the color is non-metallic red. I don't know the color code off the top of my head. Even though I plan to strip the car, I'd like to keep the color stock so it will match the VIN. Thoughts?

Other planned improvements involve the suspension/steering. Coilovers all around, and some nice thick sway bars are absolutely going on. 6-front, 4-rear piston calipers with some nice BBSs or Alpinas, and a Z3 rack will finish it off.

Oh yeah, this car has a reconstructed title from some kid backing into a retaining wall and claiming the insurance. It bent up the left side of the rear skirt. I plan on welding in a new skirt.

Speak up! I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[325issguy]

First off,
THere is no way in hell you will recoup all of your costs put into the car. I could easily see you taking a hefty hit in order to get rid of the car.

Also,
If you are trying to build a car for resale, you would be better off to start off with a non salvage titled vehicle. As people that pay big bucks for cars do not want a car that doesnt have original body panels, have been in wrecks, etc.

Good luck with what you decide to do but keep in mind that it most swaps are going for under 6000 these days.

[nrubenstein]

A salvage title will absolutely destroy the value of that car, regardless of the quality of the work.

Putting in an S54 will cost you roughly $10k (motor, electronics, $3k to delete EWS from the ECU) assuming you DIY, of course. You're looking at, well, $20-30k to get the car to the point you're talking about. With a clean title, you might get to $15k if you sell really hard. With a branded title, you'd be lucky to hit $10k.

[Blackangusinc]

Thanks gents,

I had a sneaking suspicion that might be the case. Well... that leaves me with a couple of options. I could give the car a good spit-shine and sell it as-is, then pick up an iS with a more attractive title, and proceed with my M52 swap hoping for the best.

As another option, I suppose I could boost the M20 that's sitting in the car now. It has pretty low miles and I could throw one of my M20B27 cranks and a new set of pistons in there to push the boost ceiling up a bit. The only problem with this plan seems to be the lack of a market for boosted M20 cars. Obviously, I plan to post a build thread to legitimize the project, but even then, I have doubts about how salable this car would be.

[Danny]

Selling for resale? S52 turbo with e36 m3 5 lug could net you around 12-17k and would cost you from 8-11k to build.

[gobuffs]

Agreed with what everybody has said. Not a money making venture.

The only non iron block is the early Z3 2.8s. S54s have iron blocks and are another magnitude of money past your average S5x swap. Selling my Euro 3.2 with under 30k miles for $4500. Would cost another $1k in parts to get it running in another E30.

[FredK]

I like your enthusiasm, seriously. Motivation gets projects done.

In order to recoup most of your money, I would start off with a car where someone has already completely refreshed the suspension. It can easily cost $2500 to go through the entire suspension on an E30.

I think gobuffs's engine would be a great deal, and easily fetch $9-10K in the right car.

Things people want, but aren't willing to pay for include:
1. E30 M3 5 lug
2. Any BBK
3. An achingly beautiful 304 stainless steel TIG welded exhaust that costs $800 in tubing and 8++ hours of labor to execute
4. Expensive / rare wheels. No one really cares you spent $2600 refurbishing some rare Euro wheel, dismount them nightly to bring them inside to polish with spermaceti harvested from a whale's skull, then throw your wife/gf off the bed so you can sleep with the wheels.
5. A $5000 repaint. $1000 car + $5000 repaint =/= $6000 car.

These are the things you can save money on, that people actually don't need/want/can feel
1. Any urethane bushings besides the front control arm bushings (RTABs, subframe, diff bushings cost around $250, but most people aren't going to notice the difference between Rein subframe bushings, which are $25 a pair and are the only bushings you'll HAVE to replace)
2. Solid engine mounts, solid transmission mounts -- these increase noise, vibration, and harshness by a huge amount and aren't desirable to most buyers
3. Camber / caster plates -- more often than not, people don't know the effects of camber plates, or even bother to adjust their plates after they buy them. It makes a huge difference in handling, but any car destined for the street will not truly need them, as you'd have to be approaching the limits of adhesion to really benefit from them. Most prudent people opt not to do this on the street.

[Blackangusinc]

Thanks for the offer gobuffs! I will certainly keep this in mind when I get rid of this Salvage iS. Which engine is it specifically?

As to the car I have now... any suggestions? I would hate to just dump it without giving the car some sort of a new lease on life. Perhaps it could be a Pro-3 car? Yes...? No, I guess not.

I'm leaning toward the M20 turbo option as it seems simpler, and possible with my new salvage car budget.

[gobuffs]

My motor is a Euro 3.2...S50 B32. 321hp (270 RWHP on a recent dyno)

[mbonder]

I like your enthusiasm, seriously. Motivation gets projects done.

In order to recoup most of your money, I would start off with a car where someone has already completely refreshed the suspension. It can easily cost $2500 to go through the entire suspension on an E30.

I think gobuffs's engine would be a great deal, and easily fetch $9-10K in the right car.

Things people want, but aren't willing to pay for include:
1. E30 M3 5 lug
2. Any BBK
3. An achingly beautiful 304 stainless steel TIG welded exhaust that costs $800 in tubing and 8++ hours of labor to execute
4. Expensive / rare wheels. No one really cares you spent $2600 refurbishing some rare Euro wheel, dismount them nightly to bring them inside to polish with spermaceti harvested from a whale's skull, then throw your wife/gf off the bed so you can sleep with the wheels.
5. A $5000 repaint. $1000 car + $5000 repaint =/= $6000 car.

These are the things you can save money on, that people actually don't need/want/can feel
1. Any urethane bushings besides the front control arm bushings (RTABs, subframe, diff bushings cost around $250, but most people aren't going to notice the difference between Rein subframe bushings, which are $25 a pair and are the only bushings you'll HAVE to replace)
2. Solid engine mounts, solid transmission mounts -- these increase noise, vibration, and harshness by a huge amount and aren't desirable to most buyers
3. Camber / caster plates -- more often than not, people don't know the effects of camber plates, or even bother to adjust their plates after they buy them. It makes a huge difference in handling, but any car destined for the street will not truly need them, as you'd have to be approaching the limits of adhesion to really benefit from them. Most prudent people opt not to do this on the street.

This man speaks the truth, that's why I've put all of the things that Fred has listed as "stuff people won't pay for" on my car, so that I'll never feel like its worth it to sell the damn thing.

This really keeps me in the e30 crowd, I've spent over 15k on mine and I doubt it would fetch anywhere over 12k at best simply because its a niche car now, unless the right buyer hits, I'm out of luck, doesn't mean I don't love the heck out of the thing every time it comes out of the garage. But if you are thinking about resale, you're better off finding a $500 e30 on craigslist with nice paint and a bad engine, swap out the engine, shine it up, and sell for $3k, that puts at least $1500 in your pocket if you do all the repairs yourself.

[etxxz]

trade the stock e30, even if salvage title. e30's are cash cars, salvage title means little, a couple hundred less at most. They just sell fast. What was your logic behind the complete teardown?

[Blackangusinc]

salvage title means little, a couple hundred less at most. They just sell fast. What was your logic behind the complete teardown?

The guys above are warning of the drop in value when marketed to the kind of buyer I'm looking for. When someone is looking to spend $10k+ on a perfect swapped E30, they want it to be just that, perfect. While it doesn't necessarily say much about the vehicle's condition, it puts a pretty big stain on bragging rights and cool factor. However, in my experience, with stock cars selling in the $3-4K range, what you're saying holds true.

As to my logic regarding the build, I'm the kind of guy who takes joy in doing comprehensive and excellent work. I love taking something dirty and crusty and making it shiny and clean. It's not a real practical obsession, but it's something that give me satisfaction.

[etxxz]

yeah i like beating up little handicapped kids, it gives me satisfaction but its just not right.

now, i'm just yanking your chain i understand what you're telling me, fixing up a car is very rewarding, but only if you're going to enjoy it or make a lot of money for your time IMO. If i were you, i'd fix it up and drive it, or trade it as is, maybe fixed up a bit if it would help the selling price. Do post some pcis of your work!!

[flyboyx]

pretty much everyone here speaks the gospel to you. there just isn't any money in what you are trying to do with an e30. there are way too many of them still on the road. we have no exclusivity. i suggest buying an american muscle car with a big engine if you want to make money at this.

[Blackangusinc]

Well, this project has been postponed... by the introduction of a customer project! We're doing a M52TUB28 / 420g swap into an 85 4-door. Unfortunately, this guy really loves his diving boards:(, but despite the sleeper status, it should be a fun project. We have some unique features planned.