Car off road for 2 years, does not start.

[Leo_328i]

Hey guys,

Before I start - this is for an E36 328i - not an E30 with M52 but all the same principles apply but I would really appreciate your input as you guys are smart and mechanically minded (unlike some other forums). Hope you will oblige me! Anyway...

Was about to get the 328i back on the road yesterday but ran into a serious issue.

Everything was put together properly.

Started the car and it ran for a second or so, then died. My thinking is that the fuel in the car has gone bad (its over a year old) and explains why the engine died, so I filled up with some fresh fuel and octane booster and injector cleaner. However, after that, the engine does not want to crank over. After this we thought there was some sort of electrical issue as the car's dash would go dim every time the car tried to start. The battery is absolutely ok - it came out of Dad's E39 so its perfect. So we discovered some slightly loose connections going to the starter motor, we tightened those up and cleaned the ground going from the battery to the car body in the boot. Also discovered a grounding for one of the coil packs a bit loose too so fixed that up as well.

After this, the car still did not want to crank over. Even if we try to manually crank it with a 22mm socket on the front of the crank and a big leverage bar, the engine seems to be pretty much jammed into place. The tail shaft spins freely when the gearbox is in neutral.

The clutch at this stage, is not bled too, though I doubt thats what it could be. So something is jamming the driveline, either the engine is seized for whatever reason (yes, there is oil in the engine), the starter motor is jammed or the clutch/flywheel is jammed for whatever reason.

Anyone have any ideas? Whats the liklihood of the starter motor jamming? I've never heard about this ever happening before and really hope thats the problem - don't want to have to take the gbox off again!

Thanks guys.

[Adrian_Visser]

It's possible that the starter solenoid got stuck, and it's a hell of a lot better than if it hydro-locked a cylinder or seized a piston up in the cylinder bore which is probably not the case since it ran at first.

Pull the starter and find out.

[Leo_328i]

Thanks Adrian,

I think its extremely unlikely that the engine is somehow seized too.

The question is however, would a stuck starter solenoid be enough to jam the engine so hard that it cant even be cranked manually from the from with a really big leverage bar? The extension bar I am using goes about 12 inches above the rocker cover all the way from the crank bolt and it feels extremely stuck - it can barely move either direction.

[Leo_328i]

Ok update:

We removed the starter motor but were still unable to crank the engine by hand.

We then bled the clutch and depressed the clutch pedal and were suddenly able to crank the engine by hand. We are now trying to remove the gearbox off but are having trouble with it.

Any ideas?

[7pilot]

It appears to me that the clutch kit was assembled incorrectly.
My strong hunch is that The guide tube for the throw out, or clutch release bearing has fused itself to the hub projection of the clutch disc.
Did you use an unsprung disc with an aftermarket single mass flywheel?
Either way, I believe that the clutch disc was installed 180 out.
The engine is locked by the trans input shaft. The crank will not rotate by hand in any direction.

The other scenario for a locked engine is that it skipped time and the pistons and valves collided. In the latter case the crank can be rotated counter clockwise.

m

Edit.
I see you have been able to rotate some, but it's still the tube hung up on the clutch hub.
Find two long 10mm by 1.5 thread bolts and some spacers.
Insert each bolt at 3 and 9 o'clock backwards with the hole-less spacers for the bolts to push against.
Then use a ratchet to drive the bolts deeper and they will separate the engine and transmission by ripping the tube off the trans . You'll need a new throw out bearing tube, to be safe and also a new clutch disc, as they both tend to get warped before it's all over.

[Leo_328i]

7pilot,

I think you are correct. This is what happened last time, it is an aftermarket clutch kit.

Single mass flywheel, its the F1 Racing Stage 2 clutch and 16lb flywheel.

So you think that we installed the clutch the wrong way round? F*ck.

We installed it with this side of the sprung hub clutch facing outwards away from the engine



EDIT: Where would we drive the long bolts through to remove the gearbox? Would you be able to illustrate?

[7pilot]

This a pic of what I believe has happened.
this is after the push bolts were used.
If you magnify the pic, you'll see the arrows that point to where you start the push bolts.
You'll see a bolt on the drivers side and a socket covering the other bolt.
You'll also see why you'll need a new disc and guide tube.
m

[Leo_328i]

Ahhhh so you basically used the bolts to torque the transmission off bending the guide tube off.

Very nice. Last time this happened the mechanic cut holes in the gearbox to undo the pressure plate bolts which meant I needed to get a new one! They are worth $1500 here in Australia!!!!!

EDIT: Btw, 7pilot. Your response could not have been anymore perfect - you are an awesome mate.

[7pilot]

You'll need bolts that have the same thread dimensions as the factory jobbers but they need to be longer.
You'll also need metal shims that you can add between the block and bell housing as there's a lot of spring tension(the pressure plate and clutch disc), which swallow up your gain as you get the bolts further and further inwards.

When the bolt holes for the clutch release bearing tube finally tear, it's going to pop impressively, so keep body parts clear from the rear of the tranny as it jumps backward.

m

[Leo_328i]

7pilot,

How far past the flywheel do you need to push the transmission off to break the guide tube?



I've got it up to the flywheel but the improvised plates get in the way and start touching the flywheel so I'm thinking of cutting them down to get it past the flywheel.

Also, how far does the gearbox shoot off approx?

[7pilot]

Keep shoving it backwards. you're going to practically expose the flywheel'/ pressure plate margin before you account for the springy travel/compensation. (seriously)
Install shims every 90 degrees to keep the forces driving straight back. This also helps keep the input shaft of the transmission within its acceptable angle.

When it pops, The box will only jump back about 4 inches or so, but it is heavy.

m

[Leo_328i]

You mean put something between the gearbox bellhousing and motor as it keeps going further out? What did you use?

I'm going to have to cut the metal plates I am using to get the gearbox out as its too large and fouls on the flywheel.

I tried a 3mm plate of steel but found this to be weak whilst a 5mm plate seems to do the job quite well.

So it actually needs to go past the entire flywheel and and pressure plate assembly before it comes off, far out! Good thing the bolts I got are long enough.

[7pilot]

The leading edge of the bell housing will be in line or just past the rear of the flywheel.
I used several different thicknesses of steel and aluminium as shims.
I pulled the engine/trans out.
You don't have that luxury.
I would continue to add shims at the top and the bottom as you insert the push bolts deeper.
Use a couple of bungee cords from the trans to the body or have someone with a thick pair of gloves sort of leaning against the back of the trans to absorb the pop.
Don't use someone who is not used to messing with cars.

m

[Leo_328i]

Its off!!!! Will post up pics of the carnage tomorrow. Thanks again for your help, 7pilot - would not have been able to do this without your help!