Building the best non-vanos M50

[325Projectz]

Can an aftermarket EMS be put on a vanos engine ?

Yes.

what would control the vanos then or does it work with oil pressure only ?

Vanos is on/off on older motors, most newer SEMS can control that.

is vanos worth the extra time & effort in terms of reliability ? i've seen a couple of vanos units to fail

Yes. Think of how many Vanos units are out there, only a handful fail.

[ptownTSI]

You'd have to get the M50 pistons milled down. The crank is going to place the pistons 9 mm higher at top dead center. The M50B25 has a 75mm stroke, and the S50 has a 86mm stroke.

How much you need to mill down the pistons to get a reasonable compression ratio, I am not sure...

As for tuning a 3.0L Non Vanos (as I have seriously considered, so much so that I have a Non Vanos engine sitting in my basement, together with S50 pistons and rods), can't you slap your car on a dyno then get a custom chip burned by someone like Chuck Stickley? I think his custom software is like $600, but I am not absolutely sure... I guess that'd mean you'd have to drive to PA, but eh, what's 6 hours in a noisy, stiffly sprung vehicle? :D

Anyway, I'm thinking it'd be easier for me to just get a running S50 and slap it in. I checked at my local engine rebuilder, and to get the M50 Non Vanos bored out 2mm would cost $280. You can sometimes get a bottom end for around $600-800.

why do you need a custom tune? i thought there were chips for like $150 that people are running to take care of their tunes. is this a non-vanos thing?

[FredK]

why do you need a custom tune? i thought there were chips for like $150 that people are running to take care of their tunes. is this a non-vanos thing?

The amount of fuel injected assumes a 2.5L engine, which would usually make a 3.0L run rather lean. Sure, there's adaptation, but I'm not sure it is robust enough to accomodate that much of an increase in displacement. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, though, I don't know this to be the absolute gospel truth.

Anyway, this is why most people with strokers enrich the fuel injected through the following methods:

1) Rising rate FPR. As speeds increase, this fuel pressure regulator increases rail pressure so it can inject more fuel and avoid a lean condition.
2) Piggy back. As previously mentioned, you can use something like an SMT6 or a Unichip to intercept signals coming from the ECU and send out your own user-controllable fueling parameters.
3) Standalone. Does everything by itself, including metering air, controlling spark, and amount of fuel delivered.

That said, I'm going to puss out and get an S50 head.

[ptownTSI]

when i said custom tune, what i meant to say is "why do you need a piggy back?". arent the chips from turner all you need to run these properly? or the conforti chips?

[FredK]

Oh ok, I see what you're saying.

Turner sells a boatload of different software configurations for Vanos DMEs. Unfortunately, they do not sell a program for a 2.8/3.0/3.2 Non Vanos stroker. The chips for the 402/3 DMEs are not compatible with the 413 and 506 DMEs and vice versa.

I inquired with Stickley about a custom burned chip, and he told me a dyno-tuned chip will run $650. I think Brew talked to Turner and they quoted him a very similar number.

I think the upgrade path is more defined with the Vanos engines in comparison to the Non Vanos engines. The fact is, there is no off the shelf software that you can use. If you are looking for the cheapest solution a rising rate FPR and a wideband O2 sensor is probably your best bet. You can tool around with pressures so that the air/fuel ratios aren't too lean at upper rpms.

[streetknight]

are there any pistons that would work with out having to mill them?
also any one put the s50 crank in the m50 block and had the pistons milled? have any web sites or how safe is it for longevity?
i got a s50 crankshaft last week and would like to start the process of clean and getting it pred to start the swap.

also questions for all u guys saying about software for the m/s50 swap why not go with a megasquirt its pretty much as much as a chip. reason i ask is because i just installed ms in my m20 to get use to it. so when i go m/s50 i would go with ms so i dont have to deal or get locked in a software that does not do much after its set up.

[ptownTSI]

hmmm so puttin in a non-vanos engine for a car i plan on reselling is probably not a good bet because unless they want to turbo it, they will probably want to upgrade the tuning?

college kid that can work on cars+cheap e30+cheap m50= spending money when its working and i sell it. then i'll be able to afford an s50 and another e30 chassis to put it in.

[ptownTSI]

ok well...i think we are all wrong. you can run custom tuned chips in the 1992's.

here is turners chip with conforti software. if they can do this, i'm sure they have one for the same application but with a schrick 256 intake cam and the intake>exhaust cam swap. for not much more.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=402/403

[Graham325]

I have read somewhere that AA has software for there 2.9L unadvertised stroker they do

[permit]

Fuck AA. Don't buy there software unless you absolutely have to.

[FredK]

ok well...i think we are all wrong. you can run custom tuned chips in the 1992's.

here is turners chip with conforti software. if they can do this, i'm sure they have one for the same application but with a schrick 256 intake cam and the intake>exhaust cam swap. for not much more.

There are programs for 402/403 DMEs, as found in Non Vanos engines. However, their list of their 190(!) stock programs doesn't include anything for the 402/403 DME that would be appropriate for a stroker engine. Only tuning for higher octane gas.

AA's 2.9 stroker software is $799. It is also only for Vanos engines. This thread at BF.c explains a lot if you want to go down that road. http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...t=2.9L+stroker

[ptownTSI]

well if i get the non vanos i will just plan on NOT modding it and being happy with what it gives me until i have more money to get a different e30 and build it up with an s50 or something. i've already had 1 car that couldnt get tuned for crap w/out custom 1 off tunes and i'm not going down that road again with mods. 205-210hp ballpark w/ a chip, intake, m52 manifolds, and exhaust isnt going to be slouchy in a 2700lb e30 in my book.

[Graham325]

whats the story on that 2.8L kit, I hadnt seen that before, anyone have any more info on it?

[brandon11130]

why dont you just grab a vanos wiring harness and ecu and run it on your non vanos. Thats what ill probably end up doing. Lots of guys just unplug the vanos on their cars and they have no problem.

[SpecM]

-Wow old thread time...

... good queston tho. Has this issue been resoved?