S38 or S52 motor swap delima

[e30polak]

A former car of mine had a 24v dohc swap and Twin turbo. I also ran the same engine in single turbo form AND NA form. They were all interesting in their own way

Engine code is called 2JZ-GTE; it's a pretty good piece of kit.

I seriously doubt there is an 24v BMW non oem turbo setup in anyones car that can match punches with the quality of OEM toyota; the dyno time and engineer costs for mapping, manifold flow design would cost.............

2jz-gte + OEM toyota twin turbo setup + OEM toyota ecu for twin turbo BPU supra is the proven king of 24v turbo;

If you want a decent 24v turbo bmw setup we need a e92 twin turbo swap.

even then:


Nothing makes me as excited pushing redline on an ITB NA engine.

Skyline Rb26DETT is pretty fun with ITB+twins, but its sound is a bit muffled.

deck height and bore spacing of the s54 (small) and s38 (big six) are different; have not seen s38 e30 in person- how is the front weight on your s54 e30?

True, the 2JZ is the most over-engineered engine to be put in a domestic sports car. However, a properly set-up m52/s50/s52 + GT3582R is pretty damn nice as well. My friend is running 14psi on his s52 and I love it! Spools instantly and pulls like a freight train to red-line! TRM really dialed in his tune to perfection. :D

Twin turbo s65 would be pointless in an E30, the S65 by itself is my dream motor swap for my M3! :puppy:

RB26 is an amazing motor as well, I have full respect for that engine as well. :D

The s38 and s54 are pretty similar in weight, with the s38 being a bit heavier, and sitting just slightly further over the nose of the car. Both motors will turn an e30 into a monster, but I prefer the s54 for reliability and it's high revving nature!

Chris, how'd you wind up with an $1800 S54? Did you ever button it up?

From being on the forum at the right time, with money ready. ;)

We're test fitting the motor in the next couple weeks in a spare E30, the DME will be out to be reprogrammed in the next week. Should be in my M3 this fall. :D

[Wanganstyle]

True, the 2JZ is the most over-engineered engine to be put in a domestic sports car. However, a properly set-up m52/s50/s52 + GT3582R is pretty damn nice as well. My friend is running 14psi on his s52 and I love it! Spools instantly and pulls like a freight train to red-line! TRM really dialed in his tune to perfection. :D

Twin turbo s65 would be pointless in an E30, the S65 by itself is my dream motor swap for my M3! :puppy:

RB26 is an amazing motor as well, I have full respect for that engine as well. :D

The s38 and s54 are pretty similar in weight, with the s38 being a bit heavier, and sitting just slightly further over the nose of the car. Both motors will turn an e30 into a monster, but I prefer the s54 for reliability and it's high revving nature!






From being on the forum at the right time, with money ready. ;)

We're test fitting the motor in the next couple weeks in a spare E30, the DME will be out to be reprogrammed in the next week. Should be in my M3 this fall. :D

I am with you on ITB NA love, chasing redline is my favorite activity.


Awesome, could you pm me some details on your DME reprogramming if you are willing to share? I have a pnp DTA s100 harness here, but wanted to also run a stock MSS54 to compare and try to log to compare my DTA map to.

I also want to fit a S54 into my E30, It will be bolt on turbo eta for short run but this S54 will be haunting me in my dreams until installed.....

Customer of mine has a well done TRM built motor bmw 24v 3200cc single 35R baller bearing turbo, its a DD machine and not bad, quite reliable.

IF I could drop off my E36 @ Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH for 2JZ installation...........that would be my dream. Alas will have to make do with plans for S62 or something else big and fun.

[Raxe]

I would disagree with the S38 being super expensive to maintain. Super expensive to rebuild, yes ($5K head!!), but maintenance is just like any other BMW motor, especially if you do the valve adjustments yourself. I've had mine for 5 years and 40K miles now with not much put in other than the usual coolant, oil, plugs, wires, filters, belts, valve adjustments (knock on wood). Just don't be an idiot and practice proper warmup procedures (it's easy when you have an oil temp gauge) and the motor will run for 250K miles.

What he said.

It's not exactly cheap, but it's not a nightmare to maintain and it's no more difficult to work on than an M20. Just treat it with respect and an S38 is as reliable as any BMW engine.

And you get the sound :3

[M3 euro ltw]

S38 v S54 weight

Can anyone really document that these are that close in weight?

It seems virtually impossible to me that a dressed S38 with the big block, heavy alternator, large cylinderhead, clunky headers etc etc etc could not seriously outweigh a small block S54.... just doesn't seem possible.

Any official documents anywhere we can reference on this?

[e30m3s54turbo]

http://www.bimmerforums.com/engine_faq.php

[328ijunkie]

^idk how right that is

[Wanganstyle]

Can anyone really document that these are that close in weight?

It seems virtually impossible to me that a dressed S38 with the big block, heavy alternator, large cylinderhead, clunky headers etc etc etc could not seriously outweigh a small block S54.... just doesn't seem possible.

Any official documents anywhere we can reference on this?

I concur, small and big 6 cannot weigh the same

M30 e34-5 has more front weight than m50 e34-5, same chassis and rear weight bias of equal rear x member, diff, etc

[Adrian_Visser]

The DOHC valvetrain adds quite a bit of weight to the mix that is where the gap is made up. Think about it: bigger head (although it is aluminium) twice as many cams, valves, springs, tappets, hydraulic lifter bodies VANOS pistons etc.

[flyboyx]

I have only built one s54 swap car; my prior 1997 e36m3/4/5

Wish I had more time to do another- I did keep my e36 harness though, so its an easy pnp adaptation to e30 chassis!!


Just picked up a S54 a few days ago and considering installing it into my E30 sedan :)


Here is the S54 E36 build thread with detailed parts list, what fits, how to fit, etc. Daily drove the car for 5 months before s54 removed and car caged for 2jz-single turbo full drift car (sold the shell), still have the s54 harness here and DTA s100 full alpha N map on my laptop for it.

Also have s54 here with pan pulled that would be so perfect for my e30.....

Anyone who can plan and execute a 24v e30 swap can do a s54 swap. Nothing special in this; BMW engineered this swap - I just stuffed it into my car without much thinking.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1437471

e36m3+s54+dta s100 with full dual vanos+ alpha N tune on 91 octane poop gas for 310 rwhp. Zfsg320 5 speed + s52 clutch and oem dual mass fly+3.38 final drive 2 way wanganstyle LSD.

the 3000lb e36m would pull with catless re-mapped sti's from 80-110, pull car lengths anywhere north of 105mph, the gearing was pretty long for top range power but a good compromise with the 5 speed. From 130-170mph it was a monster :)

6mt would have cost 30lbs in weight and a decent chunk of $$$ more but would have allowed for short gearing and quite a lot of more acceleration. 4.10 or 3.91 would be nice, 4.27 for track.

Many sfbay Locals have seen my prior e36m :)

A former car of mine had a 24v dohc swap and Twin turbo. I also ran the same engine in single turbo form AND NA form. They were all interesting in their own way :)

Engine code is called 2JZ-GTE; it's a pretty good piece of kit.

I seriously doubt there is an 24v BMW non oem turbo setup in anyones car that can match punches with the quality of OEM toyota; the dyno time and engineer costs for mapping, manifold flow design would cost.............

2jz-gte + OEM toyota twin turbo setup + OEM toyota ecu for twin turbo :) BPU supra is the proven king of 24v turbo;

If you want a decent 24v turbo bmw setup we need a e92 twin turbo swap.

even then:


Nothing makes me as excited pushing redline on an ITB NA engine.

Skyline Rb26DETT is pretty fun with ITB+twins, but its sound is a bit muffled.

deck height and bore spacing of the s54 (small) and s38 (big six) are different; have not seen s38 e30 in person- how is the front weight on your s54 e30?

man, you used so many acronyms, i have a head ache trying to figure out what the heck you are trying to say.

[Wanganstyle]

The DOHC valvetrain adds quite a bit of weight to the mix that is where the gap is made up. Think about it: bigger head (although it is aluminium) twice as many cams, valves, springs, tappets, hydraulic lifter bodies VANOS pistons etc.

comparison is between S38 and S54; both are DOHC ITB.

s38 has more metal stuff and longer crank/taller deck

both come with 5 speeds, the s38 5 speed is bigger and heavier.

DOHC M50 e34 feels lighter in the front than e34 with sohc M30 or dohc s38


acronym key:

2JZ-GTE = toyota supra MK4 twin turbo engine
s38 = e34 M5 engine
S54 =e46 M3 engine
M20 = 325i/e engine
M30 = 535i/735i engine
RB26DETT = Skyline GTR engine
ITB = Individual Throttle Bodies
LSD = Limited Slip Differential
NA = Naturally Aspirated (non turbo)
OEM = Original Equipement Manufacturer
BPU = Basic Performance Upgrade
DTA S100 = UK based Standalone rally ECU company
e36 M3/4/5 = E36 M3 sedan 5 speed manual

[e30polak]

What an s38b38 can do to an e30! Listen and watch what that thing can do!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwyFu09YQ4U&feature=related

11s!!!! The Fiesta ran and 11.88, and the e30 beat it by at-least a car length, should be in the 11.7 range!!!!

[stormspike]

Ill vote for the S50b32 swap. Sounds great and puts down good power in the E30. Also the 6 speed is nice :)

[Alpina]

Ill vote for the S50b32 swap. Sounds great and puts down good power in the E30. Also the 6 speed is nice :)

Euro S50B32 is ..............The best IL6 swapp EVER

even if i have myself S38B38 ,, i would recommend S50B32

[M42Power]

Damn right bitchez.

Euro s50b32, easier to swap than an s54, also has 6 speed, makes almost equivalent power, has correct M Pedigree, all good to me!

Just don't know about the price overseas. Might get expensive, but Files in a god damn e30:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J2uuUZFaPo&feature=related

And even in a e36 beats a m3 e46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss2FgMiv2fo&feature=related

[Wanganstyle]

not any easier to swap than s54 - its the same - but S50b32 is much cheaper, so if the budget is more suited for the lesser $$ motoer than its great swap item!!

If you want S54 easy swap to the max you can just use all S50b32 electronics; pretend its a s50b32; It will run just fine -just remap for better everything engine!!!

for USA, S54 cost is less than S50b32 (at least one I would install in my own car with my own money).