The Official OBD1 vs OBD2 argument thread.

[nmlss2006]

I think you have misconstrued my reply entirely: what I was trying to communicate was precisely what you were saying, that is, among other things, that a hotter engine with a better exhaust does, indeed, give more power.
What I was trying to add is that *conversely* a cooler engine with crappy intakes and exhausts like 95% of the swaps out there may very well run worse with the OBD 2 setup, because it's running significantly out of original spec. Do we know for sure? No, apparently we do not, therefore 'go OBD2 because it's better' doesn't hold water.
And incidentally, I even agree with you about the fact that the definition of 'better' can vary a lot, but with the parameters you've given, it seems that a) OBD I has fit the bill for a lot of people b) we don't have hard data on the actual differences or improvements that OBD 2 can offer in this context.
Therefore I will not trouble you for your data - it seems that we are in agreement and I have given up on arguing on forums, mostly - and I will remain of the opinion that there isn't enough data to support the unconditional argument that OBDII S52 swaps in E30 work better than OBD I.
With this said, folks, have a ball. It would seem that this has become a vendor forum and honestly, I'll pick my battles.

[VinniE30]

I'm doing a swap soon and it just looks like keeping it OBD2 is way easier. Most people get the engine with everything on it, at least I will be.. And it looks like most people buy engines like this. All the ones i've seen for sale on CL or even in junkyards come with everything accessories, harness, sensors, etc included.
So why take a bunch of stuff off and then buy all the obd1 stuff to OBD1 convert it when you can just keep it the way it is and send the ECU to delete stuff not necessary like EWS, evap stuff, air pump stuff, etc... That makes it just as "simple" as OBD1. If you were running an S52 on an OBD1 ecu would you need a correctly tuned chip anyway.

The people arguing for OBD1 aren't actually listing any advantages of OBD1, just arguing that OBD2 doesn't offer much advantage over it, which is somewhat true, there aren't any huge advantages to OBD2, it's just easier and the way I see it, and the right, proper way to do it. OBD1 on an M52/S52 looks like more work and headache for no advantage.(if anything, arguably disadvantages)

[etxxz]

I'm really not trying to battle with you. The only thing i wanted to convey was that you have two choices. OBD1 and OBD2. If you have the option of OBD2 is because your engine is a 2.8 or a 3.2. So why would YOU go with OBD1 or OBD2?

Forget this data you're looking for, I'll tell you logistically why you should make that decision - if you can get the OBD2 bits with the engine then you'll save a LOT of money and effort. The difference in performance is null granted you use the OBD1 intake manifold.

If you don't have access to the OBD2 bits then don't source them. Go to a junkyard and get some OBD1 bits and a TRM chip. Boom, end of thread.

even the difference between a crappy intake and exhaust one won't "feel the difference" - maybe it'll sound like crap, but will probably perform the similarly. At the track its a driver thing so why worry about data so much. Go with what i said above. You'd be surprised how "out of spec" you can go and still be so fun you won't give a damn.

i sold my track s52 e30 with e36m3 brakes 1.5weeks ago. Funnest toy i've ever had. It was a beast holy crap that thing moved and braked like few others could and i have the times to prove it. It didn't run like a stock e36 did, but it ran good that was *enough*.

[nmlss2006]

Well, it looks like we are, indeed, in agreement. Even on this final point, that is, on the fact that you can have fun even when the car is out of tune. I will, however, take exception with the fact that one won't feel the difference with the typical exhaust and intake that I see installed: there are measurable, BIG power gains and losses, in a site where people discuss underdrive pulleys to gain 5HP in transitories maybe, one would think it would have more importance, but as you said, maybe the fun part is good enough for most. I just wish, in that case, that people were more aware of what they're throwing away before going into exotic projects for the lost 0.25HP.
To finish, Vinnie and etxxs, I agree with both of you on the probable determination about the best route being based on what parts you have. Today, it's probably the most realistic for a 'fun' (as opposed to most powerful) swap. And yes, I have a swapped car in the garage right now - not the first one, it's loads of fun, I just wish it were the same as the E36 it came from from a reliability standpoint, but I'm working towards that end.
And again, because I'm a pain in the ass, I have the correct exhaust for it and the KAmotors intake which is possibly the best compromise given the limited airbox space we have, unless one wants to build an expensive custom mould.
Sorry about being abrasive. It's just that the thread had started out about OBD II being so great for reasons that weren't really supported. I don't like that, you've noticed.

One last note for everyone in this thread. Earlier, the red/yellow ABS pin *for late cars* is discussed. The conclusions in the thread don't match the ETM: there needs to be power from the main relais, there, as per factory wiring. Otherwise, ABS will never work.

[metris228]

Is it as simple as this with the M54 engine and MS43 ecu?
Just flash out a heaps of options from the ecu?
Am I able to buy a harness adapter for this?

I already have a 330i wreck so already have everything I need... and I have no issues with mounting and running the drive-by-wire throttle.

Can anyone make a harness adapter for this?

What is being sent by CANbus?

[VinniE30]

Can anyone make a harness adapter for this?

What is being sent by CANbus?

I was curious about this too. I haven't seen any tuners in the US that claim to do it. But this guy in the UK says he can do both the ECU and harness so it will be "plug and play". Thread says S54 and S62 but if you read it all he says he can do M54 and some other newer engines too.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=252375

[craiggroves91]

Hey guys haven't been able to really test my car much but it seems like the RPM gauge is off.

I have a 3.25 diff and the Tach indicated 5k RPM @ 65mph, this is obviously way off right?

It seems like its right when I'm sitting still and I rev it, but it just doesn't seem right while moving. It definitely doesn't pull like it should when its indicating 4k rpm.

Once I drive it more I'll be able to explain it better and maybe get a video.

[emmanuel.dlc]

Hey guys haven't been able to really test my car much but it seems like the RPM gauge is off.

I have a 3.25 diff and the Tach indicated 5k RPM @ 65mph, this is obviously way off right?

It seems like its right when I'm sitting still and I rev it, but it just doesn't seem right while moving. It definitely doesn't pull like it should when its indicating 4k rpm.

Once I drive it more I'll be able to explain it better and maybe get a video.

cjdontthink, check this out: http://members.dodo.com.au/~wawawa/revs.htm

it's a nice RPM calc with all the gearing suitable/available for the e30's, check if yours is accurate or not (it will only work with IE, otherwise the table will get skewed)

[craiggroves91]

cjdontthink, check this out: http://members.dodo.com.au/~wawawa/revs.htm

it's a nice RPM calc with all the gearing suitable/available for the e30's, check if yours is accurate or not (it will only work with IE, otherwise the table will get skewed)

Don't have access to IE at the moment, but I tried another one I found and my tach is obviously way off.

I'd be at 100 MPH plus in 5th at 5k rpm

[328ijunkie]

coding plug.

[craiggroves91]

coding plug.

Expand please? haha

Edit: After searching I've found a little bit of info.

Looks like I just need a 6cyl e30 coding plug. I'm hoping I have one of those laying around. If not I'll go snag one

[Mr.SWISS]

Hey guys haven't been able to really test my car much but it seems like the RPM gauge is off.

I have a 3.25 diff and the Tach indicated 5k RPM @ 65mph, this is obviously way off right?

It seems like its right when I'm sitting still and I rev it, but it just doesn't seem right while moving. It definitely doesn't pull like it should when its indicating 4k rpm.

Once I drive it more I'll be able to explain it better and maybe get a video.

E30S52 Y U NO PowA @ 4K RPMZ !!111



cuz you really only at 18 hundred brah.

[craiggroves91]

E30S52 Y U NO PowA @ 4K RPMZ !!111



cuz you really only at 18 hundred brah.

HAHAHAHAH

[craiggroves91]

put a BMW 17 coding plug in and everything seems great.

No wonder the sloot wasn't pulling ...

[craiggroves91]

dAnother question. Any idea why my speedometer might be off?
I'm on stock basket weaves and stock tires right now.
It seems to be off quite a bit when I use my GPS speedometer