The Official OBD1 vs OBD2 argument thread.

[328ijunkie]

Bump for enlightenment

[Wanganstyle]

you should get the S52 DME with the car, if you are getting the engine the title is probably avail as well - just buy the complete wreck and recycle/scrap of the body after you are done with it, this way you will have the paperwork also. Or just keep the e36M as a race car body where ews and OEM DME is not required.

If ews parts were needed for my e30 I would just take them from my E36M race car.

[nando]

you can put the chip inside a regular E30 key.

[etxxz]

a cut ewsII key costs $200 from a dealer and that is IF you can prove ownership of the VIN. I haven't been able to get a second key for my car tell you that much.

Then you need two keys in your car. So, unless you can install the tumbler/ring somewhere and use it like a kill switch then awesome. I just hid mine with the key permanently attached to it which defeats the "added security". Its easy to access so i can, and do use it every now and then.. Wish i could replace the e30 tumbler with the e36 one in the steering column...

as for the EWSII module for $125 you prob still have to prove the same info as for the cut key. You're $325-400 into this assuming you have an ECU. That's why i say unless you can get the stuff cheap/together with your engine swap then go OBDI parts which are ridiculously cheap and easy to source... plus a $125 chip / tune and you're done.

or send the ecu out to get the eWSII deleted which may cost less than the aforementioned.

[Wanganstyle]

Even brand new list dealer price on a programmed for you EWS II control unit is not terribly expensive. Consider the security advantage to your ride!

This would let your swapped e30 be more anti-theft...all other EWS parts should be re-usable or easily attained from ANY donor e36 obd2. EWS Key can be cut brand new for not much, just put on keychain next to e30 key, extra security. If someone only has your door/trunk key then the car wont start!




EWS II CONTROL UNIT 61358380369 $125.6

[etxxz]

hehe and i've searched them to death but can't find someone whos actually used it... even ewsIII 0.o

[328ijunkie]

Ive always wanted to try one of those lol.

[nando]

you can also get a chinese EWS2 emulator for like $20..

[328ijunkie]

I understand how EWS2 works.... I was simply stating you dont HAVE to have all that because yes you can flash it out of the ECU. Yes you have to do either one or the other to get the ECU to even tell the motor to fire.

If this wasnt my business then i would be happy to post my wiring chart for every possible combo of E30 and Motor (including E46 engines too) on the net, but i would prob not have business anymore lol.

[etxxz]

i don't get it so what do you mean you don't need any of the ones i listed?

the OBDII ecu won't allow spark (fuel and starter as well on e36's that can also be wired into e30) without being paired up with its EWSII module and Key w embedded chip... then the way it communicates with the key is via the ring that goes on the e36 key tumbler by induction and a transponder module that sends the code to the EWSII module which then converts it to a digital key to the ECU to disable the anti-theft.. ECU which then makes a new code for the key. Can't brake the chain with the EWSII module unless you send the ECU out.. unless this is what you meant and i'm just being argumentative.

took me a few months to figure it all out even learned some german in the process seriously. I did make that thread for people to make their own adapters and its pretty good. If you haven't gone through it, then boom here it is. You won't find a better OBDII e36-e30 wiring on the net. First post will get you there 95% of the way. There's a few additions but none will keep you from running.

[328ijunkie]

Well if you want to run a M52/S52 on OBD1 you have to get a chip for it either way. EWS deletes are only ~150. 250 including a performance tune. And yes im not the tuner, i leave the tuning to the professionals. And im not sure what thread youre talking about with the adapters. I dont make adapters first of all and second of all i made my own fully comprehensive wiring charts based off experience and BMW diagrams. Everything ive seen posted on r3v or elsewhere is usually incomplete or wrong.

[etxxz]

NO.. if you want to run OBDII without paying someone to do the EWSII delete then YES you need all of it plus a transponder module and the ignition key ring..

this is how obdII is better AND cheaper.

and by the looks of it YOU are paying someone to do your OBDII EWS deletes.. just a middle man - nothing wrong with it. bimmerworld and turner doing it. IIRC ~ $200 inc some tune idk i didn't pursue paying someone when i figured it out. Wouldn't surprise me if you're using my thread too for the adapters - no prob either i have no interest in making them anymore. It was good money in college though that's for sure.

[328ijunkie]

ok, /thread for dummies

power

why is obd2 better?
s52 and m52 have basically the same ratings, maybe a little bit more torque. Ever notice the intake manifold differences. So, you want to make more power, you use the m50 or s50 intake manifold with the big runners. These engines already use that manifold so you can't make the gains... And they are substancial! Diagnosing is much easier with the scan tools. There's even a software that, with an usb-bmw plug adapter, you can scan codes, look at status of sensors and even do live reading of temperatures rpm timing etc. Its a great diagnose advantage.

why is obd2 worse?
if your swap parts don't come together, then you'll spend a great deal of time sourcing them. you need chip key, ecu and ewsii module from the same car.

wrong, you dont need any of that.

why is obd1 better?
if your swap doesnt come together with the above obdii requirements, this route will be cheaper and relatively easy to source.
You can get tunes, chips cheaper and in more places. Its not so much a black art as its counterpart. This is probaby 90% of the reason people purposely understandingly consciously go with obd1 if the above obdii parts arent available.. With the other 9% being forced induction and the other 1% being ignorant.

why is obd1 worse?
smarter or slower computer or not i can't tell the difference they both run the engine just as well. its a safe backup i would say.
Legality - but you can bar as an s50 and they won't know. They didn't ask me.


swap complexity
you have to run like 3 more wires.
If you aren't familiar with my easy to diy obd2 thread search my wiring kamasutra thread. Iirc someone in google even pdf'd my thread and good thing cause my hose of those pictures is gone.

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=utf-8&q=wiring+kamasutra

everything else is exactly the same. Same block, same transmission, 1 less temperature sensor, two more o2 sensors. 1.5l of extra displacement to do the same work. ...yes 3.2l is just generous rounding by bmw.

This is more of a go this or that route with your swap. Like a decision chart.


For the record i took me 2-3mo to figure out the obd2 wiring and post it on r3v, but i can't do any ews2 deleting

[etxxz]

OK, /thread for dummies

POWER

Why is OBD2 better?
S52 and M52 have basically the SAME ratings, maybe a little bit more torque. Ever notice the intake manifold differences. So, you want to make more power, you use the M50 or S50 intake manifold with the big runners. These engines already use that manifold so you can't make the gains... and they are substancial! Diagnosing is much easier with the scan tools. There's even a software that, with an USB-BMW plug adapter, you can scan codes, look at status of sensors and even do live reading of temperatures rpm timing etc. Its a great diagnose advantage.

Why is OBD2 worse?
If your swap parts don't come together, then you'll spend a great deal of time sourcing them. You NEED chip Key, ECU and EWSII module from the same car.

Why is OBD1 better?
If your swap doesnt come together with the above OBDII requirements, this route will be cheaper and relatively easy to source.
You can get tunes, chips cheaper and in more places. Its not so much a black art as its counterpart. This is probaby 90% of the reason people purposely understandingly consciously go with OBD1 if the above OBDII parts arent available.. with the other 9% being Forced Induction and the other 1% being ignorant.

Why is OBD1 worse?
Smarter or slower computer or not i can't tell the difference they both run the engine just as well. Its a safe backup i would say.
Legality - but you can BAR as an s50 and they won't know. They didn't ask me.


Swap complexity
You have to run like 3 more wires.
If you aren't familiar with my easy to DIY OBD2 thread search MY wiring kamasutra thread. IIRC someone in google even PDF'd my thread and good thing cause my hose of those pictures is gone.

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=wiring+kamasutra

Everything else is exactly the same. Same block, Same transmission, 1 less temperature sensor, two more O2 sensors. 1.5L of extra displacement to do the same work. ...yes 3.2L is just generous rounding by bmw.

This is more of a go this or that route with your swap. Like a decision chart.


For the record i took me 2-3mo to figure out the OBD2 wiring and post it on R3V, but i can't do any EWS2 deleting

[328ijunkie]

:wave. Keeping people informed