Clutch issues- Totally STUMPED- !!FIXED 4/9

[nrubenstein]

ALL ZF SG320/310 transmissions were paired with DUAL MASS flywheel from BMW. there is no such thing as a ZF5 speed single mass clutch (not from bmw).

clutch fork is only avail in dual mass to match the OEM dual mass only flywheel and clutch.

UUC sells their aftermarket single mass setup; no instructions are given by uuc to change the clutch fork for one that does not exist. BMW never put a E34M5 clutch in a E36M and sold it as OEM to customers new in production cars.

I misspoke. I was thinking of the self adjusting clutch, and apparently dual mass came out of my brain.

[Jonny Cash]

Well there it is..

Solution was an adjustable pivot ball.




Threaded rod/alan set screw, with locking nut outside, 2" of adjustment.
Adjustable clutch engagment on the fly. FINALLY FIXED.

[ForcedFirebird]

How's it feel now? :D

Made and adjustable pivot pin today, but will let Johnny Cash tell you about it.

[Wanganstyle]

Are you sure you are using the correct pivot fork? If you use one from, say, a dual mass clutch car, you will have these exact symptoms. Ask me how I know.

ALL ZF SG320/310 transmissions were paired with DUAL MASS flywheel from BMW. there is no such thing as a ZF5 speed single mass clutch (not from bmw).

clutch fork is only avail in dual mass to match the OEM dual mass only flywheel and clutch.

UUC sells their aftermarket single mass setup; no instructions are given by uuc to change the clutch fork for one that does not exist. BMW never put a E34M5 clutch in a E36M and sold it as OEM to customers new in production cars.

[ForcedFirebird]

I tried a modified slave with an extended rod.

Enough with the bleeding, already. Re-read the posts, there is NO air in the lines mang.

[Mr.SWISS]

Drop trans, install zf specific slave, stab trans with slave installed correctly.

Then pump the pedal and watch the bubbles....

[atldohc]

I honestly can't remember Since I did this a couple years ago. I believe the rods were different lengths and I'd imagine the inner bore size could be as well, but I don't think that would be visible externally. But I just remember seeing the rods were different lengths so I said f it I'll try it. And it's been in there ever since

[Jonny Cash]

^ So what exactly was the difference between the two?

[atldohc]

Engine/trans removed from running/driving e36 m3, new clutch kit, put in e30. There's ZERO mismatched parts.

Tried another m3 dual mass FW since the refaced unit didn't have a nice finish, got a little better. Car goes into gear now with engine running, car not moving and clutch in, but the clutch still releases immediately off the floor.

ive posted this in other threads before, but i had the same experience with those parts. i had the engine and trans from 98 m3, and stock dual mass fw and clutch. original e30 master. clutch would engage right when pedal was barely lifted from the floor. ive read a few others post they had the same experience. dont know if it will fix the actual shifting problems youre having. but a 325is slave cylinder from a 93 or 94 fixed the pedal height engagement issue for me. only side effect was the pedal effort became stiffer

[Jonny Cash]

To the OP, I also had similar problems to you with my S52 and ZF trans. At first I tried bleeding it in different ways, swapping slaves, etc and nothing worked. I decided to open up the tranny again. I had accidentally installed the clutch disc backwards....sounds like a huge noob mistake, but the disc wasnt marked at all and the hub of the clutch disc looks like it doesnt matter, but the hub is flexed/rounded to one side, far enough to rub on the flywheel nuts and causing a binding condition, keeping the clutch from disengaging and causing your described condition. I flipped it around and that fixed my problem.

Later, the problem popped up again...i.e. poor pedal response/engagement and when trying to put the car in first, it inches fwd, etc. I bled the system and everything seemed OK but upon further inspection, my firewall bracket was sheared and the clutch master cylinder shaft was actually not getting full travel when I pushed on the pedal, thus keeping 100% actuation even though my hydraulics were functioning properly. I'd look at that too if you haven't already. Here's a pic from my repair of that one:

Sheared pedal bracket


Pounded and re-welded


My poor master...yours doesn't need to be this severe to cause the symptoms.


I'd look into this just because it's simple to check. It can be hard to tell on the car, but check the pedal bracket...look for flexing when you hit the pedal with your hands. If its not this, and the system is bled well, my money is on the clutch disc...its the only rational explanation. Looking for a pic of the clutch disc to help with my explanation of that...

You know, everything said and done, only problem i can think of is something wrong with my pedal linkage, but I inspected everything, and cant see anything out of the ordinary..
I did notice however my clutch pedal is plastic.. first ive ever seen that.
Tomorrow ill give it another look.

[Jonny Cash]

Yea, its been in and out more than a few times. Pivot ball, and pin inspected -- everything else is brand new-- Still at a loss. Ill probably start fresh with a getrag, and new clutch kit after this weekends sebring event.

[ForcedFirebird]

Are you sure you are using the correct pivot fork? If you use one from, say, a dual mass clutch car, you will have these exact symptoms. Ask me how I know.

Engine/trans removed from running/driving e36 m3, new clutch kit, put in e30. There's ZERO mismatched parts.

Tried another m3 dual mass FW since the refaced unit didn't have a nice finish, got a little better. Car goes into gear now with engine running, car not moving and clutch in, but the clutch still releases immediately off the floor.

[nrubenstein]

Are you sure you are using the correct pivot fork? If you use one from, say, a dual mass clutch car, you will have these exact symptoms. Ask me how I know.

[gkurey]

This might sound crazy, but is the clutch in backwards? we had an e30 where the clutch was put in backwards and the clutch wouldn't disengage.

To the OP, I also had similar problems to you with my S52 and ZF trans. At first I tried bleeding it in different ways, swapping slaves, etc and nothing worked. I decided to open up the tranny again. I had accidentally installed the clutch disc backwards....sounds like a huge noob mistake, but the disc wasnt marked at all and the hub of the clutch disc looks like it doesnt matter, but the hub is flexed/rounded to one side, far enough to rub on the flywheel nuts and causing a binding condition, keeping the clutch from disengaging and causing your described condition. I flipped it around and that fixed my problem.

Later, the problem popped up again...i.e. poor pedal response/engagement and when trying to put the car in first, it inches fwd, etc. I bled the system and everything seemed OK but upon further inspection, my firewall bracket was sheared and the clutch master cylinder shaft was actually not getting full travel when I pushed on the pedal, thus keeping 100% actuation even though my hydraulics were functioning properly. I'd look at that too if you haven't already. Here's a pic from my repair of that one:

Sheared pedal bracket


Pounded and re-welded


My poor master...yours doesn't need to be this severe to cause the symptoms.


I'd look into this just because it's simple to check. It can be hard to tell on the car, but check the pedal bracket...look for flexing when you hit the pedal with your hands. If its not this, and the system is bled well, my money is on the clutch disc...its the only rational explanation. Looking for a pic of the clutch disc to help with my explanation of that...

[328ijunkie]

Still seems like its not bled all the way.