ZF output flange question

[rbartongrimley]

Just to clarify, I did buy the 24v swap guibo. I know grinding down the flange probably won't do to much (all three spots are so close to the axis of rotation), but I am always hesitant to do something like that to a constantly moving part. I guess I might just have to, unless I pick up a different drive shaft and an OEM guibo.

Also, from what I understand, not all 97+ have 6 bolt drive shafts. I believe it is only 95,96 and some 97. The 4-bolt ones are a rare commodity now days with all the swaps going on.

[328ijunkie]

Its hit or miss as to whether or not youll find a 95-99 M with a 6 bolt. Ive seen 95s with them and ive seen 99s with them.

[SwiftE30]

soo... what does that mean if we have the zf from a 97 M3 that came with the closed flange?

I bought a complete 97 m3, matching numbers and all, and it had the closed flange.......

I, one of three having the closed flange, grinded it down and have had zero trouble with it. So for future readers of this thread, dont hesitate to grind it down. It works perfectly fine.

[rbartongrimley]

soo... what does that mean if we have the zf from a 97 M3 that came with the closed flange?

I bought a complete 97 m3, matching numbers and all, and it had the closed flange.......

I, one of three having the closed flange, grinded it down and have had zero trouble with it. So for future readers of this thread, dont hesitate to grind it down. It works perfectly fine.

I think I might just end up grinding it down this week. Did you just use a Dremel with the flange still attached to the transmission in the car, and how much metal did you end up having to take off?

[Wanganstyle]

the ZF Sg320 gearbox is usually seen with the Closed, modern style flange. I have 3 of them here, all the same. I've owned 3x e36M3's and they have never come with a open old style flange. Perhaps on a 1991/2 525i that had the same gearbox, but probably not; nor will it be common to get or really desirable to buy one of those ancient ruins.

the majority of the ZF 5 speed SG320 boxes that are in desirable running will be from e39, E46. BMW used this gearbox as a workwhorse from 1992-2004. e39 528i/530i, e46 330i are the common modern ones with less abuse than a M car and revised detent/spring/etc issues.

Z3m and late model e36M had the problematic ZF5 speed units that need detent pin service often.

ZF SG320 5 speed gearbox is NEVER used in a usa model 4 cylinder car or any euro 4 cylinder I know of. Rev-SHIfT, you don't know your stuff.


It is rare to find that flange, you can also fit a 6 bolt driveshaft from any e36M 5 speed into a e30. Change the diff flange, its that easy - just pnp. I build 6 and 4 bolt diffs all the time, just interchange to match the car.

I'm running a e46 transmission + E36 Driveshaft + e36/7 Z3m diff+ e30 M20 engine in my e30 currently, it all fits perfectly with e30 center bearing installed.

6 bolt, 4 bolt dosnt matter. just match it.

use the OEM BMW driveshaft with the proper flange and use a OEM bmw guibo as well. Then you wont have weird fit issues, grinding issues or vibration issues from weird aftermarket guibo

[SwiftE30]

I think I might just end up grinding it down this week. Did you just use a Dremel with the flange still attached to the transmission in the car, and how much metal did you end up having to take off?

yeah i just used a thick cutting wheel and slowly grinded it down till i thought it would fit. Theres a little indent type line think on the flange and i grinded each side down until it hit that line. I tried to make it as even as possible, ending up with a very gradual indent that spanned from side to side. And yes it was still attached to the car. I really didnt want to spend the time to go get a socket that would fit that massive nut, otherwise i probably would have just taken it off if i had the socket handy.

the ZF Sg320 gearbox is usually seen with the Closed, modern style flange. I have 3 of them here, all the same. I've owned 3x e36M3's and they have never come with a open old style flange. Perhaps on a 1991/2 525i that had the same gearbox, but probably not; nor will it be common to get or really desirable to buy one of those ancient ruins.

the majority of the ZF 5 speed SG320 boxes that are in desirable running will be from e39, E46. BMW used this gearbox as a workwhorse from 1992-2004. e39 528i/530i, e46 330i are the common modern ones with less abuse than a M car and revised detent/spring/etc issues.

Z3m and late model e36M had the problematic ZF5 speed units that need detent pin service often.

ZF SG320 5 speed gearbox is NEVER used in a usa model 4 cylinder car or any euro 4 cylinder I know of. Rev-SHIfT, you don't know your stuff.


It is rare to find that flange, you can also fit a 6 bolt driveshaft from any e36M 5 speed into a e30. Change the diff flange, its that easy - just pnp. I build 6 and 4 bolt diffs all the time, just interchange to match the car.

I'm running a e46 transmission + E36 Driveshaft + e36/7 Z3m diff+ e30 M20 engine in my e30 currently, it all fits perfectly with e30 center bearing installed.

6 bolt, 4 bolt dosnt matter. just match it.

use the OEM BMW driveshaft with the proper flange and use a OEM bmw guibo as well. Then you wont have weird fit issues, grinding issues or vibration issues from weird aftermarket guibo

thanks for the clarifications. This makes me really angry becuause i had read about changing out the internals of the diff and 6bolt flang to run the e36 m3 diff gearing and M oem diff. BUT, my brother sold the diff and DS when i was on vacation for the weekend withouth my consent. So i was forced to go with the revshift guibo (which i'm pretty happy about) and now i have to find a 2.93 lsd somewhere. blah!

[Wanganstyle]

yeah i just used a thick cutting wheel and slowly grinded it down till i thought it would fit. Theres a little indent type line think on the flange and i grinded each side down until it hit that line. I tried to make it as even as possible, ending up with a very gradual indent that spanned from side to side. And yes it was still attached to the car. I really didnt want to spend the time to go get a socket that would fit that massive nut, otherwise i probably would have just taken it off if i had the socket handy.



thanks for the clarifications. This makes me really angry becuause i had read about changing out the internals of the diff and 6bolt flang to run the e36 m3 diff gearing and M oem diff. BUT, my brother sold the diff and DS when i was on vacation for the weekend withouth my consent. So i was forced to go with the revshift guibo (which i'm pretty happy about) and now i have to find a 2.93 lsd somewhere. blah!

the trans needs a 32mm deeeeeep socket to remove the flange. spendy item to remove a flange.

the 6 bolt diff flanges are direct interchange with 4. If you buy a e36M complete donor car, just have the gears and LSD internals refreshed and built in a E30 case to install into your e30.

e36M/z3M comes from BMW with a 3.23 or 3.15 final drive. its probably the best overall DD/sport compromise with the ZF 5 speed you can have; its the OEM choice for S52/S50 engines

[SwiftE30]

the trans needs a 32mm deeeeeep socket to remove the flange. spendy item to remove a flange.

the 6 bolt diff flanges are direct interchange with 4. If you buy a e36M complete donor car, just have the gears and LSD internals refreshed and built in a E30 case to install into your e30.

e36M/z3M comes from BMW with a 3.23 or 3.15 final drive. its probably the best overall DD/sport compromise with the ZF 5 speed you can have; its the OEM choice for S52/S50 engines

i wish i would have known more about this before my brother sold the diff and DS from my complete donor car. its chill i guess. the 2.93 e30 diff is going to work great with my turbo. the cash from the parts was nice though!

[treff-7]

wow! it got a little nasty here...!
we don't know why we have these differences in the output flange and also the ETK does show weird things sometimes. especially pics are often messed up. let's not jump on each other for this! it's possible that the design changed from region to region in the us to keep costs down. i far as i know that was the reason for ditching the more modern cv joint.
BTW i thought from 96 up there were no m3's with cv joint but today i bought a '97 driveshaft. the shop had 2 and one of them was 6 bolt, the other one 4 bolt.

just because revshift's guibo is aftermarket it doesn't mean it's crappy. actually making that guibo was a very smart move in my opinion. would have saved me from a lot of headache if i knew a few months earlier that it existed. i would have kept my original driveshaft. even if it's not a perfect fit for all the flanges out there with a little bit of grinding it works perfectly. time will tell but i think it will outlast the oem rubber one if the driveshaft is lined up properly.

my 2 cent...

[328ijunkie]

Like i said, no flame to revshift. Ive never personally used their products. I would have just ensured proper fitment on what they were selling before mass producing it.

[treff-7]

i've never used their products either but they look quality stuff however pics are often tricky.

i agree on the design thing but if you think about it there isn't really a workaround because the position of the bolts are set by the end of the driveshaft. maybe if they made it a bit skinnier and use shorter bolts on the ds flange so it cleares the trans flange but than it also weakens it so...
i think it's fine. it's not a major issue where it's impossible to use the guibo.

[John@Revshift]

i agree on the design thing but if you think about it there isn't really a workaround because the position of the bolts are set by the end of the driveshaft. maybe if they made it a bit skinnier and use shorter bolts on the ds flange so it cleares the trans flange but than it also weakens it so...
i think it's fine. it's not a major issue where it's impossible to use the guibo.

This exactly. Thank you.

We designed the swap guibo around the open flange, like I said before. It works perfectly with the closed flange once you make a little room for the nuts. Most people don't think its an issue. The part is for an engine swap, its not an oem replacement part, afterall. There are plenty of things you have to tweak and modify when doing a swap. That's just the nature of the beast.

[mammoth_e30]

We designed the swap guibo around the open flange

Instead of just a link at the bottom of the page (that most people seem to miss) you should put this information in bold and include a picture with the other transmission fitment information you provide instead of stating it fits ZF transmissions one place and then provide a link in another spot with a disclaimer about flange fitment.

I bought this guibo and ran into the same issue but once I realized the information was there I had nothing to really complain about. It's good quality, there are some odd bubbles in the poly and the steel inserts all seemed to be different lengths by mm's but nothing that I thought would cause a failure. That being said I decided not to modify my flange in the end.

I am using the Revshift engine mounts which worked out great and I think Revshift has some innovative products out there and by and large are supporting the community with fresh ideas.

[John@Revshift]

I am using the Revshift engine mounts which worked out great and I think Revshift has some innovative products out there and by and large are supporting the community with fresh ideas.

Thank you. We are trying very hard to grow as a company and put out increasingly better parts as we go. I am glad you like them so far.

We now turn all the sleeves down on a lathe instead of cutting them on a bandsaw (everyone makes mistakes :p). Turning them on the lathe makes them perfect and all exactly the same length. We are also having them zinc plated now to prevent rust.
Earlier his year we changed some of our processes for making the urethane bushings which completely eliminates all surface bubbles.

We are constantly updating the website and changing things around. We will definitely look at how we can clarify it on the product page a little better.
We are also working on a solution that allows you to use the swap guibo on either flange without grinding anything. As soon as we figure it out I'll post up the info.

[treff-7]

this is exactly the reason why i like small companies. they respond better to problems, requests and they actually try to improve and don't get stuck on the ol' "it's good enough".