Opinions on Removing M50 Engine / Re-installing S50 w/ or w/o Tranny Attached in E30

[IMSARS69]

Opinions on Removing M50 Engine / Re-installing S50 With or Without Transmission Attached in E30...


Looking for experienced opinions of best choice for pulling an M50 engine with or without the 260 series transmission attached from an E30 325is. Do not presently know what the hoist's horizontal reach will be. How far back would one need the hook to reach in order to pull both comfortably, related to say which spark plug hole, ex: a level horizontal reach of about 30 inches will get one to the #4 spark plug hole.

Will be re-installing an S50 engine to be mated to same transmission. Anything of note different about the two, such as weight, etc. that would matter?

FWIW I've r'n'r'd the tranny three times pretty much by myself so getting the two unbolted is second mature while in the car. Also, shouldn't make any difference AFAIK, but the shifter has been modded so that it's mounted solid to the tunnel, not the OEM 'shifting arm' which has been chopped up to be used as the shifter pivot bolted to the tunnel.

No lift. If removed together I presume it may have to be placed at an appropriate height on jack stands during the extraction to allow tail of transmission to drop at some angle, but maybe not... comments? Anyone care to suggest how much clearance is needed, from say the rocker panels, or other reference point. Max. reach vs lift of hoist will come into play, and right now that is an unknown.

If hoist reach is limited then I presume pulling the combination could be problematic, right?

Has anyone used the Harbor Freight 1 Ton Foldable Shop Crane, specifically their Item #69445 or #93840, not their #69512, with success in this instance or similar. Not interested in issues related to fit and finish or assembly of these as I've read all the pros and cons related to those, only if their reach and lift are capable and whether or not with or without the tranny attached.

Anything in the way of tips and tricks would be appreciated.

TIA...

[luckysnafu]

I've swapped an M52 (with a G240 tranny) into two different e30's and recently an S52 (ZF tranny) into my newly acquired sedan and each time I've installed/removed the engine with the transmission attached. I can vouch that the HF foldable shop cranes (I have the 2-ton version) will get the engine/tranny high enough to clear the front of the car, assuming your car is NOT at the stock ride height.

Some tricks I've learned from doing this:
- Use a load leveler if you have access to one
- If you don't have a load leveler, like me, lift ONLY from the front engine lift point. This will angle the engine/tranny nicely to slip it into the engine bay. Once you get the tranny into the tunnel, get under the car and guide/jack it into place while the engine falls onto the engine mounts.
- Remove the A/C compressor and the power steering pump, they most likely will cause problems clearing the front of the car.
- Let air out of the front tires to get the front end as low as possible

Good luck! It's really not that bad once you get the hang of it.

[Poorboyz]

Buy a load leveler from HB...you'll thank me lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[Nick_S]

I wish I would have installed my engine with the trans on. It was a hassle to get it in and lined up then get to all the bolts. I would recommend pulling the trans, it's only like 5 or 6 more bolts. And another vote for a load leveler, it makes the job so much easier.

[NickL]

Pull the trans with it FOR SURE. Save yourself the hassle of fighting with the bell housing bolts and lining the input shaft etc. back up while on your back on install. All you have to do is disconnect the selector rod from the shifter, pull the shifter up through the console. Undo the three driveshaft bolts from the trans to the driveshaft, undo the bolt at the back of the carrier (don't even try the bitch clip, you'll get frustrated and its unneeded), trans mount and you're done.

[IMSARS69]

Buy a load leveler from HB...you'll thank me lol

'HB'... would be who? Did you mean HF?

Which leveler PN or link, if there's a preference?

TIA...

[IMSARS69]

Here's a WTF difference do it make query....

First thanks for everyone with whatever input...

Finally getting to the part where I actually start extracting the ol burned up M50. Fer an update on progress... have borrowed A-List bud's ol timey engine hoist so no problem with reach, lift, etc. and 'is engine stand, albeit the three wheeled variety which makes for some careful balancing when rotating these Looonng ol sixes. May rig up an outrigger of sorts to keep it from tipping over on me, we'll see how that goes.

AND I have 'nother good ol buddy what runs a Euro repair shop what has loaned me his really nice load leveler, the kind with the screw jack for ease of moving the pick up point vs having to adjust via moving the chain, etc.

Will be going pretty much with all ya'll's advice and do the combo deal...


So here's a WTF difference do it make query...

When they's at least two ways ah doing sump'n, and they purt nearly always are and most folks not being all anal and such like some ah us OFs jes really don't give a rat's arse... 'cept'n in my long life experience I've found that in dang near every case they are at least some tiny lil thing what makes one way a tad better than the other... like say one set of the fasteners being easier to deal with than the other.

Does one find it best, and why, to leave the Guido with the tranny or with the drive shaft when detaching same for an engine / tranny combo r'n'r... it's new so for sure don't need to be replaced so no reason to not leave it attached to one or the other AFAIK unless ya'll folks can disabuse me of that and why I might need to remove it completely for said r'n'r...

I'm thinking that in this case it's which set of fasteners be the easiest to deal with... but then I could be overlooking sump'n else, eh?

Any takers... ';)

TIA...

[IMSARS69]

Yet One More WTF Difference Do It Make, Only More Important This Time...

Yet One More WTF Difference Do It Make, Only More Important This Time...

Searching ain't getting a definitive answer... And pretty sure there's several opinions on this, soes I'm asking...

For r'n'r'n M50s and S50s from E30 body, which items are best to remove before extracting / replacing the engine, in this case there's no AC, no PS pump, and no fan so those aren't an issue.

Looking for opinions re: such as intake manifold, fuel rail, alternator, oil filter housing, etc.

While it might be best with certain of these removed there's the issue of access to their fasteners, in like say the case of the intake manifold, which after a look see don't seem to be any problem, but some of the braces, and stuff underneath could be. So any heads up on such stuff, to include any obscure tips or tricks one may have learned through personal experience would be greatly appreciated... anything to help this po ol OF from making things harder than they need be, as it were.

Any small items such as sensors, etc. that might get damaged in the process...

Exhaust manifolds are the 'three into one' OEM SS 96+ M3 Headers so looks like they oughta stay in place, right?

Other oddball stuff one might consider, like removing the engine support arms... Hey, I said oddball, but one never knows lest one asks... and sometimes the obvious choices ain't always the best.

TIA for your consideration and patience...

[luckysnafu]

The guibo (with a "b) must be mounted on the driveshaft first. I learned this the hard way when I got under the car to install the driveshaft and had to take the guibo off the transmission and put it on the driveshaft.
There are arrows on the sides of the guibo. Each arrow points towards where the flanges are to be mounted. In other words, the transmission or driveshaft flange will mate against the surface shown with the yellow arrow. The rule of thumb is that the arrow shows which way the mounting bolts are pushed through the flex disc. For more info see the link below.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/techarticles/E36-Guibo/E36-Guibo.htm

Many pictures of installed e36 guibos on the internet are not correct and show all the bolts installed facing the same direction.

As for other things to remove from the engine, it may be easier to install the engine if you remove the intake manifold, but I've always installed my engines with it in place. I would suggest changing all your preventative maintenance items (gaskets/oil separator/etc) with the engine out of the car since you will have better access to everything. If you remove the front A/C components and steering pump you should have plenty of clearance to get the engine in. Good luck.

[NickL]

Leave the guibo on the driveshaft, and I can't tell if you're typing like that on purpose but it's insanely hard and annoying to read your posts. Goodluck

[IMSARS69]

The guibo (with a "b)

Sorry 'bout that, knew better... can't spell worth spit no how, soes that's my excuse... ';)

must be mounted on the driveshaft first. I learned this the hard way when I got under the car to install the driveshaft and had to take the guibo off the transmission and put it on the driveshaft.

Will keep that in mind for sure.

There are arrows on the sides of the guibo. Each arrow points towards where the flanges are to be mounted. In other words, the transmission or driveshaft flange will mate against the surface shown with the yellow arrow. The rule of thumb is that the arrow shows which way the mounting bolts are pushed through the flex disc. For more info see the link below.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/techarticles/E36-Guibo/E36-Guibo.htm

Many pictures of installed e36 guibos on the internet are not correct and show all the bolts installed facing the same direction.

With all due respect to your advice, and I do take it quite seriously. Seems to be a lot of different opinions on this one and my personal experience has been that so long as the yoke fingers are positioned with regard to the correct side of the guibo I'm not aware of any issues.

As for other things to remove from the engine, it may be easier to install the engine if you remove the intake manifold, but I've always installed my engines with it in place. I would suggest changing all your preventative maintenance items (gaskets/oil separator/etc) with the engine out of the car since you will have better access to everything. If you remove the front A/C components and steering pump you should have plenty of clearance to get the engine in. Good luck.

See follow up post below.

Definitely a good idea to take care of anything requiring a gasket / sealer for installation while on stand. AC and PS not as issue as they're deleted.

Thanks...

[IMSARS69]

I can't tell if you're typing like that on purpose but it's insanely hard and annoying to read your posts. Goodluck

Sorry 'bout that NickL...

I occasionally get remarks re: my writing style as it can be esoteric and eccentric, but it's usually when I'm really out there... not sure what's so hard about this particular thread's composition... be curious as to just what you're having issues with... PM if you wish to respond and rather not put in thread, or put 'er here if ya like... ';)

But then thaz jes me... ';)

So, thanks for humoring me and offering your advice anyway...

[IMSARS69]

Finally Back At It... A Follow Up To Date… Out With The Old…

Thanks to all here and elsewhere for any and all advice...

Had to take several weeks [ months ] off this project to deal with family health issues, but back on the case and with the suggestions, and the loan of an really nice hoist and especially a worm gear load leveler the removal of the old M50 was a breeze.

For the rear pick up point I made a loop around the 5/6 cyl three tube exhaust manifold runners with seat belt webbing. Worked great.

I ended up removing the left side engine mount bracket as it didn't want to come free of the mount stud easily.

Also ended up removing all the guibo bolts; had thought it could be left connected to one or the other end, but decided not worth the trouble to save the little effort.

I also decided, and glad I did, to remove the intake manifold, fuel rail, dip stick and all the hoses, brackets, etc....

Disconnected wiring and since EVERYTHING is connected with no apparent means to separate any of the various portions of the wiring harness AND the fuel rail, after disconnecting everything I've laid the whole mess back up on the windshield to get it out of the way awaiting installation of the 'new' S50 engine. Is there something I'm missing here as to how one might deal with a BMW's wiring harness. This harness is the one rewired to accommodate the M50 engine w/ Tuner chipped Red ECU in the E30 chassis.

QUESTION just to confirm: I'm lead to believe that this harness as is will be correct for the new S50 installation, with only the Turner chip needing to swapped for the new set up. That right?

I also have the complete stock harness with fuel rail, connector 'boxes', etc. from the '95 M3 donor car and as noted there's no disconnects, only single wire to wire connections, which are either stock or may have been 'rewired' since the donor had a Dinan ECU... any comments on that. Jes curious.

Not being able to separate the various components of a rather large, complex, messy wiring harness, especially one that incorporates the fuel rail seems to be a bit cumbersome and aggravating to deal with. What's the point with this system? Why does BMW do it that way? Again jes curious.

Will have other questions, likely in new threads, and will try to keep ya'll posted of progress, in particular anything I find that helped or hindered.

Again thanks to all that responded...

[smooth]

I put the engine and trans back in by lifting the rear of my car about 4ft in the air. that put the rear of the trans at about a perfect straight shot into the tunnel.

[IMSARS69]

I put the engine and trans back in by lifting the rear of my car about 4ft in the air. that put the rear of the trans at about a perfect straight shot into the tunnel.

Now that there's a thought ain't never heard anyone suggest before...

Sounds like a good idea when there's no leveler to be had...

As I noted I had the use of a worm gear load leveler which was really nice...

I did have the rear end on a secondary jack per a suggestion from one responder to raise the rear some for the purpose of changing the height / angle of the tunnel some... Not sure it made much difference, but may have.


Had one suggestion, perhaps a couple mentions, of dropping it out the bottom, in the one case with a beeg ol pic of it being done that way... well, the only time I ever used that method was on a customer's '68 Opel Kadett which were built and intended to R'n'R'd that way, as was my '72 Opel Manta IMSA RS race car... Since that method presented a LOT of issues in the best of situations short of having a lift, in particular if one is at a road course race track 'back in the day' with little in the way of shop amenities, the first thing I did to the Manta and later to a Kadett we built up as my spare race car was to fix it soes the engine could be R'n'R'd like gawd intended... Up and out the front. That wasn't an option with my customer's car since he wouldn't have taken kindly to the mods required to do that, so our engine hoist frame constructed from a kid's swing set proved strong nuff to lift the front end of the Kadett 'off' the engine / front sub-frame since without the engine / sub-frame w/ suspension, etc. wasn't that heavy... one nice thing about that deal is you can roll the whole shooting match around on the front wheels... ';) Since this was in my race shop and I had the hoist there it wasn't a beeg deal for the one instance.

We didn't have no HF soes po folks like mesef couldn't afford luxuries like engine hoists, etc. since they cost more in real dollars then than they do now, no INet for figuring stuff out, and no a LOT of other stuff what's available now that couldn't even be imagined back then...

Thanks for the tip, will file it away for when I ain't got no leveler...