Minor camshaft upgrade

[Ferret]

I've got a M50TU (single Vanos 2.5 liter) fitted. My old M20 would pull strongly up to the 6900 RPM limiter. The M50TU peaks at 6000 RPM.
I miss the high rev range and believe that what holds this motor's high revs power is the camshaft.
Fitting M3 or aftermarket camshafts seems excesivly expansive, because I'm not looking for a big increase in power (not that I'd mind more power if it didn't cost a lot 8-) ).
Can non-vanos M50 camshafts be installed on my engine (I read they rev highr)? If they can will it be with or without the VANOS system?
I'm using a stand alone managment system to control fuel, ignition and Vanos switch point, so I won't need an aftermaket chip.
Thanks,
Avner.

[Jason89i]

The M50TU peaks at 6000 RPM. I'm using a stand alone managment system to control fuel, ignition and Vanos switch point, so I won't need an aftermaket chip.
.

who tuned the management system? i have no experience with stand alone systems, but the m50tu should freely rev to 6900. m3 cams are an inexpensive upgrade. 250 for cams, 200 for chip....or just cams in your case. cheers, jason

[Ferret]

Jason,
I tuned it myself. Having no access to a dyno I admit that my tuning may not be optimal, but since up to 6K rpm everything is basically fine, I don't think that the tuning is the problem. If you say that a stock m50tu is making good power past 6K then I'll have to look elsewere for the restriction. Never having driven a stock m50tu I have nothing to compare my car to.
Regardless of my problem, where can I get M3 cams for 250? It does sound like an inexpensive worthwile upgrade.

Avner.

[Jason89i]

Jason,
I tuned it myself. Having no access to a dyno I admit that my tuning may not be optimal, but since up to 6K rpm everything is basically fine, I don't think that the tuning is the problem. If you say that a stock m50tu is making good power past 6K then I'll have to look elsewere for the restriction. Never having driven a stock m50tu I have nothing to compare my car to.
Regardless of my problem, where can I get M3 cams for 250? It does sound like an inexpensive worthwile upgrade.

Avner.

stock m50tu's pull strong to 6900. m3 cams are a great upgrade. the 4k-7k+ power is great. the old "seat of pants dyno" said 25hp.

keep an eye on bimmerforums, tms classified and your local bmwcca classifieds. i have bought sets for 300, 275 and traded some parts for some. prices have really come down in the last couple of months. too bad your 2 days late....i just sold a set to a buddy for under 250. cheers, jason

[Ferret]

Jason,
I did some checking and it appears that the VANOS wasn't oprating in the correct RPM range, and that is probably the source of the problem.
Thanks for all the troubleshooting help.
I didn't see any camshfts for sale, but I'll keep looking. Since I do all the tuning and mechanical work myself, getting ~25 bhp for ~$300 (assuming I don't get stung by shipping and taxes) sounds like a worthwhile venture.
Avner.

[alexbaby88]

stock m50tu's pull strong to 6900. m3 cams are a great upgrade. the 4k-7k+ power is great.

Jason - are the M3 cams a straight drop in to an M50 to extract an additional 25bhp? Any ECU remapping required?

[FredK]

Yes you will need a chip meant for the M50TU with M3 cams upgrade. Turner Motorsport sells it for $250 USD.

[bmw332i]

I highly reccommend trying to find a set of 1995 3.0l e36 M3 cams, just as other's have said. And I can confirm that they should be very inexpensive too. I bought a set for my brother's 1993 e36 M50TU for $350, and only because they were from an M3 that had 60k miles on it, and was owned by an elderly guy (never raced), and then sold to a club racer. The racer wanted Schricks, so he pulled these, and I snatched them up. They don't really *need* the JC chip, as the car will run fine without them, but you WILL NOT be able to use them to their fullest extent. I had the shop do a dyno comparison with and without the JC chip, and found that with the JC chip, I gained about 5 more hp all over the power band. It's worth it to tune it up right.

I have a before/after dyno sheet of the cam install that you can look at.

As you can see, the before power line (red) makes better power down low, but once the VANOS comes on, it's all over, the new power line (green) just rockets up at about 5250. The original torque band (blue) is very good down low, but at 4250 or so, things start to pick up for the new band (orange). I guess it's about an 18rwhp and 16ft/lb gain at max. The guys didn't run it all the way to red line as the "before" test was run to only 6250rpms, an dI wanted to see the change up to that point. After some other work, like headers, exhaust, under drive pullies, and intake mods, the car ended up making about 192rwhp. It was definitely the cheapest $/hp ratio in the whole process. About $20/rwhp is pretty good I think.


*edit* Sorry about the tiny pic, but you still get the idea.

[alexbaby88]

I highly reccommend trying to find a set of 1995 3.0l e36 M3 cams, just as other's have said. And I can confirm that they should be very inexpensive too. I bought a set for my brother's 1993 e36 M50TU for $350, and only because they were from an M3 that had 60k miles on it, and was owned by an elderly guy (never raced), and then sold to a club racer. The racer wanted Schricks, so he pulled these, and I snatched them up. They don't really *need* the JC chip, as the car will run fine without them, but you WILL NOT be able to use them to their fullest extent. I had the shop do a dyno comparison with and without the JC chip, and found that with the JC chip, I gained about 5 more hp all over the power band. It's worth it to tune it up right.

I have a before/after dyno sheet of the cam install that you can look at.

As you can see, the before power line (red) makes better power down low, but once the VANOS comes on, it's all over, the new power line (green) just rockets up at about 5250. The original torque band (blue) is very good down low, but at 4250 or so, things start to pick up for the new band (orange). I guess it's about an 18rwhp and 16ft/lb gain at max. The guys didn't run it all the way to red line as the "before" test was run to only 6250rpms, an dI wanted to see the change up to that point. After some other work, like headers, exhaust, under drive pullies, and intake mods, the car ended up making about 192rwhp. It was definitely the cheapest $/hp ratio in the whole process. About $20/rwhp is pretty good I think.


*edit* Sorry about the tiny pic, but you still get the idea.

Your before/after comparison: is it for with stock cams vs with M3 cams? With or without the JC chip?

[KangamangusDriver]

I highly reccommend trying to find a set of 1995 3.0l e36 M3 cams, just as other's have said. And I can confirm that they should be very inexpensive too. I bought a set for my brother's 1993 e36 M50TU for $350, and only because they were from an M3 that had 60k miles on it, and was owned by an elderly guy (never raced), and then sold to a club racer. The racer wanted Schricks, so he pulled these, and I snatched them up. They don't really *need* the JC chip, as the car will run fine without them, but you WILL NOT be able to use them to their fullest extent. I had the shop do a dyno comparison with and without the JC chip, and found that with the JC chip, I gained about 5 more hp all over the power band. It's worth it to tune it up right.

I have a before/after dyno sheet of the cam install that you can look at.

As you can see, the before power line (red) makes better power down low, but once the VANOS comes on, it's all over, the new power line (green) just rockets up at about 5250. The original torque band (blue) is very good down low, but at 4250 or so, things start to pick up for the new band (orange). I guess it's about an 18rwhp and 16ft/lb gain at max. The guys didn't run it all the way to red line as the "before" test was run to only 6250rpms, an dI wanted to see the change up to that point. After some other work, like headers, exhaust, under drive pullies, and intake mods, the car ended up making about 192rwhp. It was definitely the cheapest $/hp ratio in the whole process. About $20/rwhp is pretty good I think.


*edit* Sorry about the tiny pic, but you still get the idea.

Where/how did you install the cams. I heard that they can be very difficult
to install without the "special" tool?

I installed a MarkD chip in my car last week. Definetly pulls harder/longer.
Quite a noticable difference. Increased rev limit that is not so abrupt.
Helped get rid of the out of hole bog these motors are infamous for.

[bmw332i]

Your before/after comparison: is it for with stock cams vs with M3 cams? With or without the JC chip?

The dyno comparison was when it was completely stock and then when the e36 M3 cams/ JC intake and JC e36 325i w/e36 M3 cam chip installed.

[bmw332i]

Where/how did you install the cams. I heard that they can be very difficult
to install without the "special" tool?

I had a BMW performance shop near me do the install for the cams, and I did mostly everything else myself in my driveway. They had the cam locking tool that I wouldn't:

A. Spend the over $1k on.
B. Have the know-how for even if I did have the tool.

[Jason89i]

I had a BMW performance shop near me do the install for the cams, and I did mostly everything else myself in my driveway. They had the cam locking tool that I wouldn't:

A. Spend the over $1k on.
B. Have the know-how for even if I did have the tool.

cam alignment tools are under 50. its the cam depression tool that only the dealer has.....but most people (including me) dont use it. you do however run the risk of snapping a cam. ive done probabily a dozen installs without any breaking though. go slowly, make sure you dont put uneven pressure on the cam from loostening the bearings.

cheers, jason

[bmw332i]

its the cam depression tool that only the dealer has.....but most people (including me) dont use it. you do however run the risk of snapping a cam.

cheers, jason

And that is why I had the shop do it. I didn't think I had the 'touch' to do the cams right, and never having done cams before, decided that I didn't want to see if I could with my brother's car.