euro s50 vs s38

[liquidtension]

my dilemma: s50 vs s38

which swap do you think is a better swap ? (if both engines+tranny+wiring+ecu cost around the same)

euro s50b32 (321hp + 6 speed) or s38b38 (347hp + 5 speed) they'll be going in an e30

s38 has the extra torque .. but the s50 is a newer engine and has a 6 speed ... and im guessing it revs higher cuz peak hp is at a higher rpm ?
is the torque difference that big ?

does anybody have experience with both engines in an e30 ? advantages disadvantages of each ? id like to do the swap and not worry about constant maintenance or engine parts failing as well


so which engine should i go for ?

thanks in advance

[e30_kid89]

hey if u can go for the s38, go for it.....i've heard its an Bolt-on swap into the e30...

[BeirBrennerE30]

both engines have their advantages and dissadvantages...

s50... newer engine(more advanced design, Dual Vanos, More modern EMS)
Harder to swap cuz of advanced electronics
No iteration of this engine was ever released in the US so parts and mods and tuners are hard to find
6 speed bullet proof tanny

s38... bigger engine(more displacement)
swaps liek an m30(from what i hear)
Again hard to find parts but at least these were available in the US
Practically indestructable


do you want brute big displacemnt power(the big block chevy of BMW motors) thats a tight fit in the e30 or a more modern high reving smaller motor that you may or may not be able to find parts for in this country???

[bmw332i]

If I had my druthers, I'd put the s38b38 in the e30. I've wanted to do this for a while, but the right engine that I'm waiting for is still in my brother's car. I'd love to see an e30s38 sitting in my driveway. I would love to see what 322rwhp in a 2800lb e30 feels like.

If you get a 1995 3.8l s38, it'll have a 6 speed transmission, but those engines/tranny's/wiring harness' are hard to come by as 'parts'. Maintenance is a way of life when you have an s38. It needs basically the same kind of love and care that an s14 needs. Valve adjustments every 12k-15k miles, religious oil service, etc... You can't just drive it without thinking about what you've done, and what might need to be done in the future. Parts availability is still very good for the s38b38, but it'll cost you a damn fortune if something important breaks. A rebuild on a s38b38 will set you back over $10k easy.

By the way, the euro s50 weighs 152kg, and the euro s38b38 weighs 151kg, so weight is not really an issue (other than the usual swap related weight issues).

Here's the dyno sheet on my brother's M5 after it had Scrick cams, custom software, and full exhaust (sorry for the huge pic):

[BimmerToad]

Wow, the transition from 4-5k has got to feel impressive, especially if it was in a lightweight chassis

If the thread starter is from Lebanon, Euro parts should be easier to obtain than US parts (though I don't know the specifics in obtaining BMW parts in Lebanon)

[static]

both of these engines are heavy! 330-340lb
m20 is around 250lb

imagine what a 80-90lb difference "at the nose" will do to a 50-50 distributed 2700lb chassis

that's the only disadvantage really. I'd spring for an S50 out of the two.
but the truth is, LS1 or LS6 would be the best idea (light and powerful, like 400whp-with-boltons powerfull)

[liquidtension]

Thanks a ton for replying back guys!
the dyno run was really helpful bmw332i ;)

well, the 6 speed is attracting me in the s50 and the fact that the engine will have alot lower miles (i think itll be hard to find a 95 s38 with 6 speed)
if im gonna dump the dogleg tranny it might as well be for a 6 speed instead of a normal 5 speed

but the thing is this: see i want LOADS of torque on the lowend.. i enjoy the rearend playing around and i love going through corners sideways ...i also enjoy rocketing down the highway at night with highend hp ..as well as going up highspeed & twisty mountain roads

so which engine do you think would be better ? i read that the s38 is flat before 4000rpm ?
also which engine sounds better/meaner ? ive never been in either one of those cars so i dont want to go with one engine over the other and then regret it the rest of my life

does dual vanos keep breaking down ? ive hated the fact that everyday another part breaks down on the s14 ..i have to park and work on the car almost every week...my neighbors think im crazy and imagine something is wrong with the car cuz of how much they find me under it.. its an old engine.. i dont want to put another s14 but with 2 extra cylinders ...which makes it even harder to work on it.. and i dont want to have to rebuild the engine for a pretty long time...

btw i have to thank the purists for not giving me a hard time!

thanks again everyone

[MrK]

If the thread starter is from Lebanon, Euro parts should be easier to obtain than US parts (though I don't know the specifics in obtaining BMW parts in Lebanon)

As far as sourcing BMW parts in Lebanon goes, it's ridiculously easy. BMW parts practically grow on trees here

For example, all I need to do is send word, and I can have an s38 + tranny within 24 hours.

[static]

i've heard that S38 is essentially a S14 with extra two cylinders.
Both S38 and Euro S50 are not that reliable (not as reliable as an M50 or US spec S50)

[MrK]

Well static, since you believe that both choices are unreliable, and since you now know that he's in Lebanon i.e. American V8s are not readily available at a good price, how about making a counter-suggestion?

m62 maybe? (Even though he told me that he'd rather have an 'S' engine in his ///M)

[liquidtension]

M62 :tsk: :eeek: :down:

not feeling the M62 :p

[BimmerToad]

If you want low end torque, how about a normal M50/52 with a blower on it? You won't get the higher revs of the S38 or S50, but you'd definately get the lower end grunt and a nice kick in the top end.

Between your 2 options, I'd go with the S50. You probably won't get the same low end torque (though you might w/ vanos), but you'll have a lower mileage engine, and a more modern engine. Think of the S38 as a S14 w/ 2 more cylinders......

Dlsclaimer: This is all said without ANY personal experience of maintaining or driving behind the wheel of either engine option

[liquidtension]

thanks, it is exactly what ive been reading, so i guess it has alot of truth to it

[StereoInstaller1]

I drove a true euro M6 ('86, I believe) with the S38 and the same day, I drove a LT1-powered 635CSi. So, I do know what real torque feels like in the same car.

If those two were the logical option for me, I would do the S38. The rush of 4K on the tach is awesome, just amazing. Tire smoke is fun, but the top end rush is way better, IMHO.

Luke

[Bennetts22@aol.com]

how much do the s38's go for.. and what is the difference between motors in a 88 m5 and a 91m5?