Interest in a S54 itb on M5x head setup?

[TSI]

is this still on going ? or did this a dead project?

I finished the design for the adapter. I was never able to find a reliable supplier who could make it for a reasonable cost, and it is too big for my 3D printer.

If anyone knows of someone who can produce this for a reasonable price, please let me know. I'd love to get it working.

[blackm50]

is this still on going ? or did this a dead project?

[TSI]

a plenum/airbox is highly recommended i wouldn't ditch it.
you would probably want longer runners if your airspeed is too low. however if the throttles are too big the solution is to mount them farther upstream very close to or at the bellmouth and have a longer "tapered runner" arrangement to the head. this probably falls outside of what would be called an adapter though.

That's exactly what I'm doing. I guess it's a runner/adapter/manifold-thing :)

[digger]

a plenum/airbox is highly recommended i wouldn't ditch it.
you would probably want longer runners if your airspeed is too low. however if the throttles are too big the solution is to mount them farther upstream very close to or at the bellmouth and have a longer "tapered runner" arrangement to the head. this probably falls outside of what would be called an adapter though.

[TSI]

Someone is already is doing this...

The whole problem is the s54 is a 50mm body, and anyone that is going to make that kind of power ($$$) is not going to retro fit something in this fashion. There are kits currently available/being developed that cover the ITB m50/2 market and they are offering 40-45mm bodies.

Food for thought...



I realized this long after the initial "argument" with the guy already doing this, but the data he seems to be basing his "goals" on is from a heavily worked m54. Now, the m54 vs m50 port looks like this...



Now read this well put together article...

http://racehead.com.au/designing-performance/what-size-itb-should-i-use/

Also, I just can't wrap my head around why people think a high HP number is all the rage... It's not fun to drive a street car that has a power band from 5-7k...

Yes, my idea is to replicate the Jenvey setup's basic layout but use cheaper and more available components--their setup comes close to $2000 without any ancillary parts. Relative to the differential port sizes, there will of course be a loss of smooth airflow (same as any setup with a plate not exactly matching the M5x port, really). At the end of the day, I'm not promising monster HP or torque gains--the ideal setup has already been done, it's called the euro S5x. My solution to the increased size of the S54 itb is to use the combination of a lack of plenum and and shorter runner (compared to that used on a 45mm throttle) to create a tract overall slightly shorter, taking into account the morphing cross-section.

The 45mm were a bit too large for the m50. If you look at my dyno graph, you can see the TQ was lacking a bit.

Your setup was a big reference for me; I agree it's not ideal, but I'll try to compensate with an overall tract length that addresses that.

I'm still very much in the preliminary stage, but would like to have the design completed by July and make the first by August.

[goarmy]

If you can develop a product well engineered at a great price I will buy one. Make you have some graphs.

what is your time goal for this?

[ForcedFirebird]

The 45mm were a bit too large for the m50. If you look at my dyno graph, you can see the TQ was lacking a bit.

[pantelones]

but I prefer the S54 ones for their higher flow and performance background along with huge availability. It shifts the bottleneck to the valvetrain, which gives you a lot more breathing room (pun intended) for subsequent mods.

You clearly did not read the RHD website nor understand physics...

[pantelones]

Someone is already is doing this...

The whole problem is the s54 is a 50mm body, and anyone that is going to make that kind of power ($$$) is not going to retro fit something in this fashion. There are kits currently available/being developed that cover the ITB m50/2 market and they are offering 40-45mm bodies.

Food for thought...

from what i found

M50 manifold is 55x25 and M52 is 45 x 23 which means an equivalent diameter of

39.75 and 34.25mm respectively

I realized this long after the initial "argument" with the guy already doing this, but the data he seems to be basing his "goals" on is from a heavily worked m54. Now, the m54 vs m50 port looks like this...



Now read this well put together article...

http://racehead.com.au/designing-performance/what-size-itb-should-i-use/

for example a BMW m3 engine has 50mm ITB but they also have 2 very long ports in the head that are only equivalent diameter of 37mm this is the high velocity section of the intake and the butterfly is effectively out near the bell-mouth. This is why everyone who adapts M3 ITB”s onto other engines results in a spectacular failure!

Also, I just can't wrap my head around why people think a high HP number is all the rage... It's not fun to drive a street car that has a power band from 5-7k...

[TSI]

Obviously naming an exact price before a prototype is even created is nearly impossible. However, do you have a target total price (sans ITB's) for what it would cost? I am interested, so long as the total cost makes me say "yeah yeah, that seems cool" =P

I'd like to keep the price of the adapter well under $400 for an initial production run, but a lot of it depends on the cost of whatever metal from which I make it and the machining cost. Figure another $300 for the S54 itbs and injectors, $170 for the vacuum tank, hoses and throttle linkage. The tune would be the biggest variable on the first set I make, but once it's done, it's done; the only cost for subsequent buyers would be the physical chip and sensor wiring. My R&D time is free :) I was discussing this with a friend, who said it would be a fair deal at under $1000 all-in, which has become my goal.

http://racehead.com.au/products-page...-itb-manifold/

Couldnt you adapt something like this?

In a sense, I've followed the same idea.

The base flange is the same; the runners are different, as mine morph along the full length to match the S54 itbs' output port, whereas the RHD ones are more generic and give you a round input port. They also don't include any vacuum takeoff nibs--you'd have to drill in the bosses and use an adapter. They'd work if you used an aftermarket itb setup, but I prefer the S54 ones for their higher flow and performance background along with huge availability. It shifts the bottleneck to the valvetrain, which gives you a lot more breathing room (pun intended) for subsequent mods.

[mattdk318i]

http://racehead.com.au/products-page/manifolds/bmw-m5052-itb-manifold/

Couldnt you adapt something like this?

[Jib05]

Id say it would be quite pricey, unless he gets a really good price on material/machining/welding.

[Chase Bays]

Obviously naming an exact price before a prototype is even created is nearly impossible. However, do you have a target total price (sans ITB's) for what it would cost? I am interested, so long as the total cost makes me say "yeah yeah, that seems cool" =P

[King Mufasa]

Definitely, count me in!!!

[TSI]

Nobody?