ZF320 Shift Selector Joint

[low_&_loud]

I didnt do the swap on my car and am still uncovering some unconventional quirks here and there, some of which were good ideas and others not. I am in the process of rebuilding the shifter assembly in my ZF320 - Ill be putting a UUC Evo3 Shifter Kit and DSSR in it along with supporting delrin carrier bushings and realized something funny when I tore it apart the other day, but didnt think much of it till now.

The selector seal is blown which I am replacing, so when I pulled the joint off the shaft, I realized it is the asymmetrical pre-89 version. It has no business being on this car, being that the transmission is obviously E36 (97) and the car itself is an 89, so Im wondering if this is something guys have done with this swap to center the shifter in the console somehow? Ive read up a good amount on carriers and shifter assemblies being used with this swap, both E30 and E36, and it sounds like different combinations keep it centered for some guys but others not...I didnt draw a clear conclusion from many threads I read.

I know my car was using the ZF320 carrier (PN 25111221864), and I have a new 89+ selector joint to install with my new parts but now Im wondering - is this going to put my shifter in a different spot, or cause problems? What joint do you guys with the 24v/ZF320 swap typically use? I would use a new pre-89 joint to keep everything the same as it was since it worked, but the bushing end of it that fits in the DSSR is not the same width and obviously wont work.

[AllydNYC]

I don't have pictures but I'll add to this.

Recently got in my M52/ZF320. Did UUC short shifter and their DSSR as well. Using the ZF320 carrier (looked at my recent orders, used 25111221864 as well). For what it is worth, even replaced this thing; .
All of the hardware fits and shifts well, thought I haven't been on the road yet. However, the whole unit sits to the right making it very difficult to get the rubber shift boot on and, I assume, at least a little difficult to shift into 5th with. It's not the short shifter or DDSR that is the issue, it's the carrier.

[low_&_loud]

hmm... I havent replaced that part, but I did burn out the rubber in it and put a delrin bushing in, though that wouldnt affect alignment since theyre both still centered.

When I pulled it out it was all centered in the console. Just this shift selector joint is the odd piece of the puzzle - I just realized now the joint changeover isnt pre-89, its pre 8/89, and my car was built 11/88 so maybe thats why I have it (if the prev owner swapped onto the ZF from the original getrag). For the record here is a comparison of the two:

http://www.harrisonmotorsports.com/images/AKG/sr30-fix.jpg

It sounds like when I reassemble with the newer shift selector joint I will have the same misalignment issue you do - does it feel awkward or is the only complication with that rubber boot? Does anyone have a solution to centering it all aside from using an e30 carrier and extending the length (which I know also keeps it centered)

[wartex11]

I've got an m50 and zf310 to go in,

Had '25-11-7-503-525' on the list, but deleted it and bought '25 11 7 580 281' instead, think the 281 is for a Getrag though..

[AllydNYC]

hmm... I havent replaced that part, but I did burn out the rubber in it and put a delrin bushing in, though that wouldnt affect alignment since theyre both still centered.

When I pulled it out it was all centered in the console. Just this shift selector joint is the odd piece of the puzzle - I just realized now the joint changeover isnt pre-89, its pre 8/89, and my car was built 11/88 so maybe thats why I have it (if the prev owner swapped onto the ZF from the original getrag). For the record here is a comparison of the two:

http://www.harrisonmotorsports.com/images/AKG/sr30-fix.jpg

It sounds like when I reassemble with the newer shift selector joint I will have the same misalignment issue you do - does it feel awkward or is the only complication with that rubber boot? Does anyone have a solution to centering it all aside from using an e30 carrier and extending the length (which I know also keeps it centered)

My car was built 06/90. I haven't installed the rubber shifter boot yet and tried shifting. I've test fitted it and it seems like it would make it annoying. Plus others have stated the same thing about the boot pinching with 5th gear. Although the carrier makes it look totally off, it's pretty straight. Take a look at the cut on the top of the shifter rod that helps align knob straight, it is aligned pretty well. However, it's not perfect or ideal.

To add to the thread, here are some pictures of how it sits:

[low_&_loud]

Alright two issues going on here - thanks for your responses and PMs, I think Ill have this figured out by Saturday when I can work on my car again...

1. Shifter not centered in console - this seems to me like it can only be determined by the carrier itself - I am baffled as to why mine seemed to be perfectly centered vs AllydNYC's being off slightly which I am seeing a lot in other threads. I will confirm when I reinstall mine this weekend.

2. Selector Joint/DSSR - I was banking on using 25117503525 (8/89+, up to 9/94 E36) - it seems this is incorrect. I bought 25 11 7 580 281 per some messaging with wartex and will see if that works. The DSSR I have is the 198mm (94-99 M3) - wartex also guided me to the following link from Turner which states the 189mm is actually what should be used for 24v/ZF320 e30s:https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...rsion/?pdk=AgE
I hadnt installed the 198 yet and got it as part of a package with my shifter, so I bought a 189 to test out too and will sell whichever doesnt fit. I will also confirm which joint and DSSR fit after I test them out this weekend. Still no idea what the selector joint I pulled off my car was but Ill post a picture of that too.

If anyone else can shed some light on what they did itd be awesome.

[Sh3rpak!ng]

Sounds like they just reused all the original e30 linkages when they installed the zf320 and motor which is fine (hence the offset selector rod joint and associated selector rod)

Going forward, you should be able to simply use all e36 components. Regarding the two different selector rod joints, one is intended to be used with little plastic washers, the other is not. The DSSR might require one or the other specifically, or a special one from UUC (which IIRC is just 25 11 7 580 281 with the plastic shaved off).

Regarding the selector rod, there should be a very slight "twist" to it. Regarding length, that's more personal preference IMO and won't effect functionality unless the joint is binding. The length of the rod will determine how the shifter is centered forward/backward. A shorter rod will put the shifter a little further back, longer rod more forward.

That said you can't really go wrong following what's been listed as "correct" for a 24v/zf320

[low_&_loud]

Sounds like they just reused all the original e30 linkages when they installed the zf320 and motor which is fine (hence the offset selector rod joint and associated selector rod)

Going forward, you should be able to simply use all e36 components. Regarding the two different selector rod joints, one is intended to be used with little plastic washers, the other is not. The DSSR might require one or the other specifically, or a special one from UUC (which IIRC is just 25 11 7 580 281 with the plastic shaved off).

Regarding the selector rod, there should be a very slight "twist" to it. Regarding length, that's more personal preference IMO and won't effect functionality unless the joint is binding. The length of the rod will determine how the shifter is centered forward/backward. A shorter rod will put the shifter a little further back, longer rod more forward.

That said you can't really go wrong following what's been listed as "correct" for a 24v/zf320

Awesome - thank you this is great confirmation, Ive come across conflicting info here and am just going to try to document a definitive answer (I think just a matter of determining the right mix of early and late E36 components, since theyre not all the same)

I tried using the 25117580281 (E36 94+) joint, and youre correct the plastic flanges had to be filed off to fit in the DSSR I have. The 25117503525 (8/89+ E30/E36) joint is "longer" and with the 198mm DSSR and put the shifter too far forward in neutral.

I have a 189mm DSSR in the mail which I will test fit also for the best combination that centers the shifter. The combinations of selector joint and DSSR I will try (with the UUC kit, though this shouldnt have much impact) and their result are below

25117503525 + 198mm DSSR = too long, shifter angled way forward
25117503525 +189mm DSSR = TBD
25117580281 +198mm DSSR = close, still seems too long, shifter angled towards 5th (tilted right and forward)
25117580281 + 189mm DSSR = TBD


Here is the old selector rod (~189-190mm, asymmetric pin lengths for pre-89 shifter joint) vs the 198mm:


Here is a comparison of the 3 joints for reference(25117503525 / 25117580281 / Pre-8/89)





The issue I mentioned above where the shifter is off at an angle as shown below - I had attributed this to the 198mm selector rod being too long, but maybe if there is a twist angle to it as you mentioned then I have it backwards - Ill have to double check that!


As everyone also seems to have observed, you can see here my E36 carrier is offset to the right (from above) - It doesnt appear to affect shifting but getting the rubber boot back in will be a pain in the ass, and may add some friction to 5th shifts - we'll see

[Sh3rpak!ng]

unclip the shifter joint at the bottom where it connects to the selector rod and rotate it 180 degrees and clip it back in.

[low_&_loud]

Regarding the selector rod, there should be a very slight "twist" to it. Regarding length, that's more personal preference IMO and won't effect functionality unless the joint is binding. The length of the rod will determine how the shifter is centered forward/backward. A shorter rod will put the shifter a little further back, longer rod more forward.

I checked out all 3 DSSR's I currently have on hand and none of them have any degree of twist - are you sure youre not thinking of the 24v/G260 DSSR? I know that setup is off at an angle.

Unfortunately I am beginning to believe my shift detent pins/bushings are shot (specifically the one for 5th). In the image below you can see the vertical hole in the selector shaft for the dowel pin is cocked off at an angle.



When it is all assembled, this is the result:



Shifter is pretty far off towards 5th, and has no return spring type feeling that Im fighting when I push it towards 5th, only when I pull it back left towards 1st. Reading up more on E36/E46 forums it sounds like this is a pretty common problem and a symptom of seized up detent pins, meaning I will need to drop my tranny to service them. I cant do that now and as much as I hate reassembling something that isnt fixed I need to for now.

To finalize the length conversation - I think there is a right answer (two of them in fact). You can see below there are two combinations of parts that yield the same result (DSSR front pin hole to selector joint dowel pin hole is the effective length in question - same between these two assemblies).



The 189mm DSSR should be used with the 8/89+ [25117503525] E30/E36 joint (top). The 198mm DSSR should be used with the 94+ E36 [25117580281] joint (bottom). Crossing either of these combos up will yield a shifter that is too far forward or backward - it may work but it seems messed up to me.


I am sticking with the 198mm/25117580281 combination, so the whole assembly is late E36 "spec."

[GG///M3]

Man this an awesome thread. I'm about to begin a s52/zf swap into my 1988 m3. I'll have to check the production date once I get it back from the body shop.

[BlackSpeed66]

The e46 shift carrier is nice and straight but just a bit long. I shortened it to taste and everything seems to work nicely now. Have about 1500 miles on it at this point.

[BMW_TUNER]

Nice work great write up. Glad to see that you were able to get everything centered. I think I am going to just give up and run a AKG setup and do away with the carrier.

[straight6pwr]

this thread answered my burning question about the 'pinched boot' which i had to completely destroy to remove. Geno - do you have a part # for the e46 carrier?

[BlackSpeed66]

I went back and checked my parts orders - the number for the e46 carrier is 25111434110. Looks like it's about $35 new give or take a few bucks.