Dogleg Tranny?

[BCM]

Does anyone know how much power a dogleg tranny out of a euro E30 M3 can handle, or if there are any issues to using this setup with a swap?

I'm currently running this tranny with a 3.25 LSD in my E30 M3. I just blew up my S14, so I'm considering the Euro S50B32, and am wondering if I should sell it, and pick up a Euro 6 Speed for about the same $$. Anyone know the weight difference?

Thanks in advance.

[Ray Smoodiver]

Great idea - handles plenty of power, 1:1 top, you've got the correct diff to use with this setup, so you're about perfect.

Unsure of what drive shaft to use, as its not a commonly used gearbox (in any application)

[Mike B.]

I recall reading something over on S14.net that stated that the dogleg trans is a bit more delicate than the standard shift pattern transmissions. I'd be leary about using one for a Euro 3.2 swap.

I am in the process of the Euro swap and I am using a ZF trans. One nice thing is you can use your stock E30M3 driveshaft and mounting bracket with this transmission.

[BCM]

One more question, is the Euro 6-Speed the S6S 420G Getrag? I think I know all the gear ratios for my options, but am trying to figure out weight differences.

Thanks.

[tjhartge]

Theoretically the M3 dogleg bellhousing doesn't fit the M50 bellhousing as its design is similair to the M30 design. You could do 2 things

1. make an adaptor
2. get the m20 bellhousing and swap with the dogleg front housing

or sell the dogleg and get the 6 speed
only issue you have to deal with is the length of the longshaft
if you live near a junkyard, you could possibly get a few different length and see which ones fit as the front and rear shafts are interchangeable, you just need to send the set for rebalancing after fitment

btw, the 6 speed is really really heavy

you could essentially make the 6 speeder as a dogleg by changing to rear axle to a 3.64 or 3.73, whereby 1st gear is hardly used unless you want to launch really really fast.....

[cthulu703]

Are dogleg gearboxes dog-ring engagement? I heard that parts for that tranny are NLA, which you may weigh in your decision.

[raimo]

i dont think the 6sp is heavy. with the bellhousing off, i can lift it with no problems. i havent got much clue what the trannys usually weight, but this seems light for a 6speed.

[tjhartge]

here are the figures i plucked from TIS

e30 260 getrag = 33.8 kg
e30 245 dogleg = 29.4 kg
e36 5 speed getrag = 29.5 kg
e36 M3 5 speed ZF = 35 kg

e36 M3 Euro Evo 6 speed = 45.3 kg

maybe i don't carry weights that often that's why i feel it's weebit heavy for me.....

[BCM]

15 kg is roughly 33 lbs, so that's a fair bit. I'd prefer to use the lighter trans, but I don't want to blow it up. Anyone know for sure, a little bit more than hearsay, how much power the e30 dogleg can take?

Thanks everyone.

[Ray Smoodiver]

Is the M20 dogleg (245 out of early euro 323i cars) not the same as the S14 dogleg?

[tjhartge]

m20 dogleg = 245 getrag
s14 dogleg = 265 getrag, IIRC this shares the same bellhousing as the M30s, but thee front bellhousing could be retrofitted to use the m20 bellhousing as the bellhousing had a separate design that is interchangeable between m20 and m30

[Ray Smoodiver]

Oh, then my statement is wrong, I assume they were the same with differeing bellhousings.

Are the ratios the same for 245 / 265?

[BeirBrennerE30]

there is no way that the 6-speed weighs that much... it is not significantly heavier than the stock getrag box...

also note that the e36 6speed is the same as the e46 6speed and is the getrag s6s-420G... this is also the same box thats in the 6-speed supra... this means that it is indestructable

[tjhartge]

Oh, then my statement is wrong, I assume they were the same with differeing bellhousings.

Are the ratios the same for 245 / 265?

Ray
FYI the differences in gearing between the 245 and 265 just a slight difference

245 box 265 box
1st - 3.764 3.723
2nd - 2.325 2.400
3rd - 1.612 1.770
4th - 1.229 1.260
5th - 1.000 1.000

[BCM]

m20 dogleg = 245 getrag
s14 dogleg = 265 getrag, IIRC this shares the same bellhousing as the M30s, but thee front bellhousing could be retrofitted to use the m20 bellhousing as the bellhousing had a separate design that is interchangeable between m20 and m30

I did a little more research on the Metric Mechanic web site, and compared transmissions to what I know are the ratios for these two boxes.

The S14 Dogleg from the Euro E30 M3 is the "BMW Sport 262 CR 5 Speed Getrag". The 5 speed normally found in the US Spec E30 M3 is the 260 Getrag. Ratios are:

262 -- 260
3.717 3.830
2.403 2.200
1.766 1.401
1.263 1.000
1.000 .8100

The 262, from the Metric Mechanic Site, is "A bit on the fragile side". That probably means that the Euro 6 Speed (S6S 420G) is the better choice for me, and then look to save weight elsewhere.