1986/09 eta transmission + S52?

[matt]

OK... Here goes.

There are atleast 3 different e36 transmissions, and any of them can be used with the e30/M50 swap if you get the extra parts right. The three are: 318i getrag, 325i getrag, and the ZF that was used in the 328i and M3. There may be more.

*Most* e30 transmissions use a "small" guibo with 10mm bolts. The two e36getrags use a "small" guibo with 12mm bolts. The ZF uses a "large" guibo with 12mm bolts. The tricky part is the *most* e30 trans thing... there are etas out there that use a large guibo, so you can use the DS from them with the ZF e36 trans. The other tricky part is that the e30 driveshaft from some etas and i cars that is compatible with the e36 getrag transmissions uses 10mm bolts that will rattle around in the guibo holes. The solution to this is to get some bushings to fill the holes, they fit and work great. PM me for details on this.

The 318i getrag doesnt have as much room in the bellhousing, so not all clutch/flywheel combos will fit inside. I ran into this problem on my own build. The shifter is also different, but the entire shifter assembly from the 318i will work in the e30.

Hope that all made sense. I've done it all 3 ways, they all work. The e36 325i and the ZF trans have the best results as far as I am concerned.

Edit: also, a number of e36 328i driveshafts can be used with the ZF in an e30, you just need to find one with a 4 bolt diff flange, from before they changed to CV style.

[BigD]

Hi Matt,

This is all for using the E36 trans through right? I don't think I can justify paying the extra $ for one when mine is so good and it fits.

I do have the odd-ball eta then, because I've replaced the clutch on this car and those guibo bolts sure aren't 10mm, more like 17 off the top of my head.

Thanks!
D

[matt]

10mm thread, 17mm hex. 12mm thread uses 18 or 19mm hex.

All that I just posted applies to the e36 gearboxes. Making your e30 one work will involve installing it at an angle, bending the selector rod and possibly the shifter carrier, and using your stock driveshaft.

The shifter thing that could've been an issue for you is that some eta transmissions don't have the two mounting ears on top of the back of the trans for the aluminum shifter carrier, so you have to use the steel one. I've never seen one of them work, but I'm sure someone's done it.

Matt

[BigD]

Hmm, now you have me curious... I'm actually remembering pulling out the torque wrench which had my wheel socket on and it didn't fit, I think they were 19s indeed but I digress...

Sorry I hope I don't sound too stupid when I ask but why is the shifter carrier an issue? I thought I only need to bend the shifter rod. If the carrier fit before I removed it, it should fit after. I do have the aluminum one but I'm just trying to understand. I have to bend the shifter carrier as well?

Thanks Matt!
D

[matt]

You might have to bend it... remember, you're putting the transmission in at a different angle to match the new motor. There are a lot of ways to get the shifter back where it needs to be.

[Jason89i]

just some additional information

getrags from e36 318 / 325 are externally the same, and have the same gear ratio. (not sure what the above mentioned differences are.) use e30 trans support, e30 shift linkage, e30 shifter, e36 shift carrier, e30 325i driveshaft (lengthened 3/4"). s3.73 diff recommended.

zf from e36m3 e36 328i.... use e30 trans support, e30 shift linkage, e30 shifter, e36zf shift carrier, e30m3 drive shaft, s3.25 diff recommended.

getgrag from e30 325i ....custom (whack and weld) e30 trans support, e30 shift linkage (twisted 10deg,) e30 shifter, e30 shift carrier, e30 325i driveshaft.

getrag from e30 325e (with dual mass flywheel) yes, the bell housing is 1/4-1/2" longer than the 325i one to occomodate the dual mass flywheel. guibo / ds bolt pattern / trans output pattern is different than the e30 325i. driveshaft support bearing is also different. if you want to use this....(assuming its all in good shape)....you can use a 323i throwout bearing with a 325i l.w. flywheel / clutch assembly. this will give you the added length. i have no info re: steel shift carriers...never touched one.

cheers, jason

[BigD]

getrag from e30 325e (with dual mass flywheel) yes, the bell housing is 1/4-1/2" longer than the 325i one to occomodate the dual mass flywheel. guibo / ds bolt pattern / trans output pattern is different than the e30 325i. driveshaft support bearing is also different. if you want to use this....(assuming its all in good shape)....you can use a 323i throwout bearing with a 325i l.w. flywheel / clutch assembly. this will give you the added length. i have no info re: steel shift carriers...never touched one.

cheers, jason

Thanks Jason! My trans has the aluminum carrier. Can I use an E36 M52 lightweight flywheel with this setup? If so what clutch would I need? Regular M52? How about the t/o bearing?

[matt]

getrags from e36 318 / 325 are externally the same, and have the same gear ratio. (not sure what the above mentioned differences are.)

Not true... the bellhousings are different, and the shifter needed is different between the 318i and 325i getrags, even though the internals of the trans are the same. I have had both... the 325i fit over my flywheel/clutch and the 318i that I had first did not. Luckily I got it from Strictly German, so Bobby traded me for a 325i trans as soon as he got one.

If you use the 318i trans, you need the matching shifter because the shifter mounts farther forward on teh back of the trans case. You can also use the 318i shifter carrier and selector rod on the 325i trans if you want the shifter farther back, but that's neither here nor there.

[matt]

Thanks Jason! My trans has the aluminum carrier. Can I use an E36 M52 lightweight flywheel with this setup? If so what clutch would I need? Regular M52? How about the t/o bearing?

You need the clutch to match your flywheel. If you have a 328i flywheel, you need the 328i clutch, if you have the M3 flywheel, you need the M3 clutch. All the throwout bearings are the same, I believe. 21 51 7 521 471 looks like it fits both 228mm and 240mm clutches in e30 and e36 gearboxes.

[BigD]

You need the clutch to match your flywheel. If you have a 328i flywheel, you need the 328i clutch, if you have the M3 flywheel, you need the M3 clutch. All the throwout bearings are the same, I believe. 21 51 7 521 471 looks like it fits both 228mm and 240mm clutches in e30 and e36 gearboxes.

Cool, thanks dude! How come people recommend to use the 323i t/o to make the eta box work though?

The reason I ask about the M52 flywheel is that I have a lead on a JBR locally for cheap, sure would be nice to use it.

[Jason89i]

Cool, thanks dude! How come people recommend to use the 323i t/o to make the eta box work though?

The reason I ask about the M52 flywheel is that I have a lead on a JBR locally for cheap, sure would be nice to use it.

the 323i t/o bearing is longer than the e36 or e30 325 ones. if you use a single mass e30 or e36 flywheel, the fingers of the pressure plate will be mounted closer to the engine. hence.....if you go from e30 dual mass flywheel (1/4" thicker) to an e36 or e30 single mass flywheel (thinnner) you will need to either move the position of the slave cylinder 1/4" towards the engine OR use a 323i t/o bearing (its longer) and possibly e36 spacer behind flywheel .....or....just weld on some 1/4" spacers on the 325 t/o bearing tabs.

its amazing what that "search" button can do......http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=61990

Not true... the bellhousings are different, and the shifter needed is different between the 318i and 325i getrags, even though the internals of the trans are the same. I have had both... the 325i fit over my flywheel/clutch and the 318i that I had first did not. Luckily I got it from Strictly German, so Bobby traded me for a 325i trans as soon as he got one.

If you use the 318i trans, you need the matching shifter because the shifter mounts farther forward on teh back of the trans case. You can also use the 318i shifter carrier and selector rod on the 325i trans if you want the shifter farther back, but that's neither here nor there.

hhhhhmmmmm...... sorry, dont mean to be confusing the issue. i did get one getrag off a euro e36 316i. it was the same as the states version getrag of an e36 325i. i guess i assumed the euro 316i and states 318i had the same box. sorry.

cheers, jason

[matt]

Hmm, so the 323i throwout bearing can be used to change the clutch engagement point, also... Good to know, thanks for the info.

As for the trans, they are interchangable in most cases, so the 325i trans may not have been original, or BMW may have used the 325i box on that euro car.

Matt

[BigD]

the 323i t/o bearing is longer than the e36 or e30 325 ones. if you use a single mass e30 or e36 flywheel, the fingers of the pressure plate will be mounted closer to the engine. hence.....if you go from e30 dual mass flywheel (1/4" thicker) to an e36 or e30 single mass flywheel (thinnner) you will need to either move the position of the slave cylinder 1/4" towards the engine OR use a 323i t/o bearing (its longer) and possibly e36 spacer behind flywheel .....or....just weld on some 1/4" spacers on the 325 t/o bearing tabs.

its amazing what that "search" button can do......http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=61990

Yeah, it's amazing. And I've read that thread which did help some but confused more. There are different transmission, some people say that the eta bellhousing is longer, others say this is only for the one made in 87, even though all eta transmissions are the same from 04/86 according to realoem. Also in your thread, a guy posted saying that he solved the reach problem by using the E36 slave which sits a lot deeper. Here's the pic from that very thread:



I know he was using an E36 box but can't I use the E36 slave cylinder in my eta box to reach the single mass E36 assembly?

[Jason89i]

Yeah, it's amazing. And I've read that thread which did help some but confused more. There are different transmission, some people say that the eta bellhousing is longer, others say this is only for the one made in 87, even though all eta transmissions are the same from 04/86 according to realoem. Also in your thread, a guy posted saying that he solved the reach problem by using the E36 slave which sits a lot deeper. Here's the pic from that very thread:
,,,,,,,,,,
I know he was using an E36 box but can't I use the E36 slave cylinder in my eta box to reach the single mass E36 assembly?

no. the e30early "e" getrag does not have a large enough hole to use a depressed slave.

just pull every thing apart, slowly build engine / trans assembly on the ground. then you can measure, inspect, and verify fitment. besides, its much easier to install the engine and trans together in my opinion.

[matt]

just pull every thing apart, slowly build engine / trans assembly on the ground. then you can measure, inspect, and verify fitment. besides, its much easier to install the engine and trans together in my opinion.

+1 for sure.