Cat is coming out of the bag: Advice, please?

[StereoInstaller1]

OK, here is the deal. I am looking to learn as much as I can from others' mistakes...

I am getting a M50 from another member here. 1995 M50 from an auto E34. I will do a reseal, check the water pump to make sure it is a metal impeller, check all the crap others talk about breaking.

Here is the plan:

E30 318is radiator (with integral tank)
E36 motor mount arms
E28 M5 motor mounts
E21 tranny mounts on modified stock bracket (local custom fabrication)
Getrag 260, stock driveshaft, 3.73 LSD I already have. New clutch, M20 starter and flywheel.
Porsche 924 brake booster
E36 wire harness modified to MS&S.
Ebay headers, (coated maybe)

Before the swap, I will do MS&S on my M20B25 so I know a bit about the system and how to use it.

I will later add a turbo, but that is not part of this discussion.

Here are my goals:
Smooth tractable power, about 15 to 20% more than my tired M20
Quiet valvetrain/accessories
AIR CONDITIONING! (yes, I know it is a bitch)
Sexy underhood looks, since customers see this car every day, and I need the "WOW" factor.

I still need to figure out what to do about bringing the front of the car up a tiny bit. It is too low for me already...added weight of an air conditioned M50 AND a second Optima under the hood just might suck. I have plenty of extra weight in both the drivers seat and in the trunk, so I am not concerned about handling issues.

What I don't need:
Major power, major hassles, broken drivetrain shiot. Keep it as simple as possible is the goal.

What I am planning is to take the car apart sometime around thanksgiving, put the motor in and drive it for a week or three, then pull apart the entire car and paint it...I have fresh seats, gonna clean and paint the carpet, build an entire new dashboard, all kinds of stupid trick aimed at impressing the dumbass kids who are my main source of income.

So try and keep in mind I am just a poser and do not need massive power, just a bit more than stock. If there is a choice between fast or reliable, I will choose reliable.

Discuss, please!
Luke

[matt]

Simple means no megasquirt.

Reliable also means no megasquirt.

[StereoInstaller1]

Why do you say MS is unrelaible? From what I can tell, it is really simple electrically, and stable parts. I bet 99% of the issues have either been ironed out, or are to blame from crappy installation.

Electronics are kind of...(what I have been doing for 27 years professionally) easy for me.

This car is no DD, just a toy.

MS&S will happen. The car will eventually have a carputer and a 15" LCD touch screen in the middle of the dash (thus the new dashboard) for all media, navigation and display of MS data.

[BimmerToad]

Don't want major power? That will change ;)

[325Projectz]

Don't want major power? That will change ;)

so so true. the bug will bite.

[StereoInstaller1]

BTDT, just not in an E30.

SOME kids in Hondas in Vancouver WA were embarrassed by my V8 Astro.

They won't be discussing it here though.

Remember that I am 43 too...us old guys don't need ot go fast anymore.

Luke

[BimmerToad]

Remember that I am 43 too...us old guys don't need ot go fast anymore.

Must be getting senile

[smonkbmw]

why the porsche booster? cost? performance? 318 radiator? for looks im assuming there. standard e30 works better IMO either that or e36. e30 m3 clutch will suffice. s50 cams will get you going better. what springs are you running now? depending on the mileage, id change ALL tensioners while the motor is out for quiet running. that 3.7 lsd must be the one that ryan was gonna sell me and wont respond about? i can give you ed in salems number if you need/want more swap advice. hes done at least 7-8 swaps with zero issues with any of them.

[StereoInstaller1]

Must be getting senile

Getting? That and 25 years of daily pot smoking...

why the porsche booster? cost? performance?

fitment is SUPPOSED to be perefect...same threads, same diameter...post is too long, so simply shorten it.

318 radiator? for looks im assuming there. standard e30 works better IMO either that or e36.

the 318 radiator has an integral coolant tank, so no external at all....looks, basically. My car is an early body, so it has the ugly ass tank on the right strut tower.

e30 m3 clutch will suffice.

Yeah, I was going to do Sachs sport/M3 fitment kind of thing, or have Otts friction build me another kevlar/ceramic thing. I have used 4 of these, most excellent, IMO.

s50 cams will get you going better.

Yeah, but stock is fine with boost...later.

what springs are you running now?

I have B+G springs...too low in the front as it is. I just want to keep the same rate, I love them.

depending on the mileage, id change ALL tensioners while the motor is out for quiet running.

They are all fresh. The motor is in the E34 as we speak, and is quiet as a BMW can get.

that 3.7 lsd must be the one that ryan was gonna sell me and wont respond about?

Only if Ryan planned on stealing mine (I kind of doubt it...) My car is a 325is, came with 3.73 LSD, mine has been rebuilt to 40% I am told, but I do not know.

i can give you ed in salems number if you need/want more swap advice. hes done at least 7-8 swaps with zero issues with any of them.

Sweet. I am looking to research as much as possible to try to eliminate headaches.

That is why I spent some time under your car!

Keep it coming, guys!


Luke

[backtrail69]

My MS has been perfectly reliable other than user error. People talk alot of shit because they have never figured it out or they hear stories about it. My car started right up this morning after sitting for several weeks in the garage. The key is tuning time. You will get the hang of it quickly. You seemed like a bright guy when I talked to you at the picnic. Nando and Matt325is I know for sure DD with it. I could with mine, but I have my eta to drive daily.

[smonkbmw]

egh, id KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) on the clutch either stock m3 or get your custom piece made. ask curt how his "sport" clutch is holding up. the cams are a sound investment off the bat since the m50 is "only" 22hp over a stock m20. then again that depends on what other add ons you use while doing the swap i.e. pulleys etc. eh, if your going to Otts that means youll be in town! ill PM you eds # now.

[matt]

Going to MS from a motronic 1.0 is an upgrade, even to MS1.

Going to MS2 from a 413 or 506 is a downgrade.

The key to making it work is accounting for the massive change in VE brought about by VANOS. The 413 has two completely different sets of tables for vanos on and off ignition and fuel. This is critical, as the VE will be a moving target as vanos switches on and off, which is not a problem for a MAF based system, but will not be easy for MS to deal with. The usual answer is to leave vanos off, but then you're leaving power (a lot of power) on the table.

[LINUS]

So why are you looking for manifold pressure, Luke? I'm of the KISS mentality too, and after riding in a decently running S50 swap car, I was sold it was plenty of usable power.

Is the snail just to have that cool blow-off whistle, or basically advertising for the store clientele?

Seems like unless you are commited to an extra chunk of your time to install/maintain a turbo, that a reliable car beats a quirky ride.

I guess the biggest question is if you have a lift in your shop - then it wouldn't be such pain since you might be doing a few more R&R on the clutch once you got a turbo. That's one old man to another, as I really hate how slow I am crawling around under a car.

[Mike B.]

Going to MS from a motronic 1.0 is an upgrade, even to MS1.

Going to MS2 from a 413 or 506 is a downgrade.

The key to making it work is accounting for the massive change in VE brought about by VANOS. The 413 has two completely different sets of tables for vanos on and off ignition and fuel. This is critical, as the VE will be a moving target as vanos switches on and off, which is not a problem for a MAF based system, but will not be easy for MS to deal with. The usual answer is to leave vanos off, but then you're leaving power (a lot of power) on the table.

Matt's spot on! Tuning is going to require a LOT of time at the dyno to get the VANOS right. It's not something that you are going to be able to do by a few pulls up a hill while logging data.

I install EFI conversions on older Porsche 911's and it's a rare day that DIY'ers get EFI right. It's not from lack of trying or knowledge about the system, but from not spending $$$ on dyno time. But if you think you have the EFI chops to get it done right, dive right in, but just realize what it's going to take to get it tuned properly.

Keep in mind that a BMW DME and a custom chip (when you go turbo) is going to be significantly more cost effective than what you will spend at a dyno tuning MS.

[StereoInstaller1]

So far the two of you have made convincing argument, the first I have ever heard.

From what I am hearing from you two, VANOS will be damn near impossible to properly control. OK, I can deal with that.

So now back to swappie discussions!

Looks like I am going to need an ECU. I have been planning on E36 harness, just so it is long enough to reach inside the car. The motor is from an E34, but the EC is one of the security ones. I do not want to buy a chip for now and another later when I turbo...what ECU should I get? Would it be chaeper to get the E34 ECU and the turner chip that disables the security?

Discuss moar, pleez.