S50 ITB's, airbox, injectors on M52??

[btec116]

Hey guys, I need some opinions; I have the chance to get a Euro S50 intake system, comprising S50 throttle bodies and airbox, and option fuel rain with injectors.
I have an M52B25, at the moment completely standard in the car.
The questions are:
*Do the TB's bolt straight on?
*What MAF is used on S50's?
*Do I need the fuel rail/injectors?
*Brake boost, I haven't actually seen this, do the S motors run vacuum-assist?
*How far will this get me power-wise/is it worth it?

I realise one of the biggest limitations on the M52 is on the inlet (and exhaust) side. The exhaust will always be a problem due to packaging around the steering shaft. It will never flow like it should, and equal-lenth runners are close to impossible to make fit. Otherwise, I had originally planned to open up the inlet side (just with an M50 manifold). But obviously this would be a different animal altogether. I was toying with the idea of cams; a Schrick inlet, and the standard inlet to the exhaust, and WILL(!!) eventually find a chipping solution for the Siemens 41.1.
I Do not want to change ports or valves, and dont want to push the revs very high (I think around 6500-6800RPM is safe on a standard bottom-end?). I want a reliable street motor.
With these limitations, will the individual TB's amount to much? Also, asking price for the package would be around $400.

So what are your thoughts???

TIA!!

[matt]

So what are your thoughts???

I will save you the hassle of reading this whole thing if you just want the punchline. Bottom line, you're wasting your time and money.

*What MAF is used on S50's?

The "euro" MAF. 13 62 1 403 123

*Do the TB's bolt straight on?

Nope.

*How far will this get me power-wise/is it worth it?

Nowhere/No. The intake/intake manifold is not the "restriction" on that motor. Even though I don't subscribe to that train of thought at all, I think it applies here.

I realise one of the biggest limitations on the M52 is on the inlet (and exhaust) side.

Not true.

I want a reliable street motor.

Then don't dick with it.

Sorry if that was too blunt. Bottom line: If your motor is intended for a mostly stock application, leave it mostly stock.

[FredK]

To put it bluntly, whether you give matt a 50 foot garden hose or a 50 foot piece of dryer duct, the limiting factor is the size of his airways, not the hoses. The net flux of golfballs will remain the same.

:giggle:

[matt]

... But you're right.

[btec116]

No research, no idea.
Well, at least I was looking for a quick response.
Cheers guys :)

[matt]

So... if you aren't going to waste your $400 on those ITBs... I would suggest saving up for some S52B32US cams. They should drop right in (they would on a US M52) and will give you a nice power boost, combined with a properly tuned chip. I have seen 215whp out of an M52 with these cams and relatively few other mods.

[btec116]

Nowhere/No. The intake/intake manifold is not the "restriction" on that motor. Even though I don't subscribe to that train of thought at all, I think it applies here.

What is that train of thought?

How much of an issue are the standard exhaust headers? How far can you go with the M52 inlet (compared to M50)?

S-cams; higher lift/longer duration? Has anyone posted some data on that for M/S variants?

Please, enlighten me. Blunt? Go on:)

[matt]

What is that train of thought?

An increase in efficiency anywhere in the airflow of the motor will have benefits to power, even if that is not the "restriction." BMW does a lot of research to figure out what is optimal for their street motors, if you screw with that you may do more harm than good.

How much of an issue are the standard exhaust headers? How far can you go with the M52 inlet (compared to M50)?

If they're anything like the US M52 headers, they are lightweight and flow very well. Of course, there are gains to be had here (we'll have headers soon) but the stock ones are great.

S-cams; higher lift/longer duration? Has anyone posted some data on that for M/S variants?

Yes and yes. I have the data somewhere, but not at hand.

[ZiMMie]

i saw a post of some dude that fitten an Euro ITBS on a US Spec'ed M52.
its not an easy task.

[Drew325is]

Bence, it can be done (Tom on ECCA has done it)...and I've got a set of euro ITBs I've been working on too...but it's a royal PITA. Tom raves about his, but he sternly warns how much of a turd they are to fit. I'll finish my set off eventually, but it'll probably end up being in conjunction with a pretty serious head build. My recommendations would be to get other things done first, and leave it low on the wish list. The M50 manifold from all reports seems to flow pretty decent power, and these days I think most people would go forced induction before considering a NA motor that exceeds what the M50 manifold can provide.

[btec116]

Cheers Drew. It doesn't seem worth it for what I want. And ye, perhaps there are a couple of other things I need to take care of beforehand:)
Bence