Started my swap, already having issues!! Decisions, decisions... help! :)

[MIKe30]

Whats up everybody. I'll try to make this short and to the point, but i'll give you a little heads up on the situations.

Got a nice clean coupe (see sig) to put a motor in. The M20 is fine, but of course, I want more power. Bought an S52, planned on doing all bolt-on's, cams, and the likes - with a goal of 250whp. After some research, and seeing numerous dissappointing dyno graphs of worked S52's and US S50's - I came to a final decision of what i'm doing.

The plan is to install a stock OBDII S52. Maybe put on the m50 manifold and a lightweight flywheel. Not going to bother spending money modding it, as the best money spend modding is going Euro s50b32. It is obvious from the dyno's i've seen. WORKED N/A s52's with $15k into them are still only putting down 260whp, where as euro s50b32's are putting out 270whp stock. It's a no brainer, IMO (I like N/A). In a year or two when I am bored of my s52 and already have at least one swap under my belt, I'll go s50b32 and sell my s52. Thus, no stupid amounts of mod money (or hopefully any other money) for my current s52. Even going to use the e30 drivetrain.


Anyway, that is the direction I have for my project. I got my motor on the stand yesterday, and started tearing everything down today with the help of a good friend. There are few question marks we've run into.

1, We tried to give it a compression test while on the stand. I put about a gallon of oil in the motor, we then pulled a spark plug and cranked the motor by hand. ~30psi in cylinder 1. Was very hard to crank, at the suggestion of my old man, we pulled all plugs to ease the cranking (we're not testing the other 5 cylinders, so why work through their pressurizing sequence was our thought process.)

We got:
cyl 1 ~30psi
cyl 2 ~30psi
cyl 3 ~75psi
cyl 4 ~70psi
cyl 5 ~0-5psi
cyl 6 ~30psi - dont quite recall, was not 0 like #5 though.

We tried using our air gun, but not enough torque to turn the crank over. Can these results be relied on to tell us something or not?

Upon inspection of the block, there was a couple things. 1st, the intake mani was obd2 not obd1 like the PO said (i spoke to him and thats a seperate issue). 2nd, there is oil seepage from the headgasket. I'll post pics in a minute. 3rd, exhaust valves are toasty. IMO, looks like motor was running lean. PO did have an m50 manifold installed, but upon pulling motor form wrecked car, noticed it was cracked - so reinstalled stock obd2 manifold. I believe it ran lean from an m50 manifold and no software. Lastly, when we pulled the coil packs, they all were suctioned very nicely and VERY clean. EXCEPT for cylinder 5, which happens to be same cylinder we got no pressure from. It looked like it had dried up oil on it. Car was wrecked in april or may of this year, so hasn't been sitting too long. Just trying to throw out all and any information I know for you guys to analyze. I'm a motor swap virgin.


My questions is what would you do in this situation. Those compression numbers mean anything the way we tested it? Does head gasket need to be replaced? Valve seals bad? piston rings?! Just drop it in the car and see how it runs?!?! tell me tell me?!!?#!?

Anyway, in all serious it looks like (again, imo) headgasket should def be replaced - as much as I dont want to spend the money . What else should I be concerned about?

Pictures coming shortly.

Thanks for your time!

-mike


Engine after work:


Engine now:











One pic of the other side. No leakage. Wetness is from some coolant still in hoses.

[matt]

If you can't actually crank it with the starter, do a leakdown test.

[mentaleeill]

i dont think the obd1 manifold alone would cause it to run lean, but it definately looks like it was running lean. S52s are prone to blow the headgasket between cylinders5 and 6. more than likely yours is and needs to be replaced. i would replace all gaskets, seals, and waterpump prior to dropping it in anyhow just for peace of mind.

[MIKe30]

If you can't actually crank it with the starter, do a leakdown test.

Ah... K thanks, looks like I have some more reading to do.

i dont think the obd1 manifold alone would cause it to run lean, but it definately looks like it was running lean. S52s are prone to blow the headgasket between cylinders5 and 6. more than likely yours is and needs to be replaced. i would replace all gaskets, seals, and waterpump prior to dropping it in anyhow just for peace of mind.

I didn't think it would either, but according to some e36 guys over on bf.c it seems that sometimes their dme's didnt adjust according and they were running lean. For all i know, the PO did a shitty job running his lines for the m50 install and may have caused some issues with the a/f ratios.

Also, I didn't know that about their proneness (if that's a word) to blowing between 5 & 6. If I knew it was blown and had to guess where, before reading your post, I would've said at 5 or between 5 and 6. That is, as long as i'm counting my cylinder's correctly. 1 at the front, through 6, nearest the firewall.

Thanks for the quick replies. If anybody can think of anything else I should be concerned with or look into please chime in.

ps, if that's you in your avy - then your s/n fits you well you pyscho!

[MIKe30]

Forgot to ask, all replacement gaskets (including head gasket)... best to go oem again, or does anybody know of an aftermarket that seems to be better quality? (I personally like oem, but thought i'd ask because you never know - for example: t-stat housings, oem is plastic and the aluminum is aftermarket and better.)

Thanks again.

[PiercedE30]

Might want to have the head checked out and pressure tested. The M50 heads tend to crack either between valves (exhaust - exhaust or intake - intake) or from one of the valves out to a head bolt hole.

[e30serg]

How many miles on the engine? What did the PO tell you about it? Did you get a chance to hear it run?
Did he happen to mention overheating and a blown head gasket?

At minimum, like Pierced said, take the head out and get it pressure checked. If you're lucky, the 0 psi is due to the head and not a ring. If your rings are burned, well, you know what that means-rebuild time.

I know you don't want to spend too much $$ but given the issues you're seeing right now, you may want to refresh more stuff than originally planned.

Taking the head off is not super hard-do remember the 2 small torx screws at the front, right next to the Vanos, and the little bracket on the passenger rear corner that holds the o2 sensor wiring.

[peerless]

We got:
cyl 1 ~30psi
cyl 2 ~30psi
cyl 3 ~75psi
cyl 4 ~70psi
cyl 5 ~0-5psi
cyl 6 ~30psi

Sorry bud, you head gasket/head are gone. Make sure to check all the valves to make sure they are not bent.

Once the head is off bring the pistons down in the bores and spray around the piston heavily with carb cleaner. This will clean the carbon deposits and loosen the rings so they can seal properly. They get carbon in them and gum up in the ring lands.

You may as well pull the front covers and check out the chain guides and probably replace those as well. Pull the oil pan and check the front nut on the pump, these have been known to back off. Clean and retighten using lock-tite.

Its like buying a used car or any piece of machinery, you have to expect to invest money in restoring it. If you though you where just going to buy this engine and drop it into the car lock stock and barrel, you where mistaken.

Your no longer a motor swap virgin, your getting your cherry popped right now. How its feel to get fucked? I only say that because my friend ran into a almost Identical problems when he purchased a M42 engine. The seller claimed it ran like a top with no noises or problems. 4 bent valves, wasted crank, timing components wiped out. About $3,500 later he had a running engine.

[brandon11130]

Yo mike when we get the head off the napa machine shop can pressure test the head and check it for cracks, they dont charge toooo much for stuff either. They do good work I had them do a few of my heads.

It sucks that the motor needs work but its better that we found it out now. Before you have it in the car and are wondering why its running shitty. Plus when you get it in you can beat the piss out of it knowing that everything is good to go :)

[MIKe30]

Might want to have the head checked out and pressure tested. The M50 heads tend to crack either between valves (exhaust - exhaust or intake - intake) or from one of the valves out to a head bolt hole.

You're saying the s52 heads have the same tendencies as m50 heads?

How many miles on the engine? What did the PO tell you about it? Did you get a chance to hear it run?
Did he happen to mention overheating and a blown head gasket?

At minimum, like Pierced said, take the head out and get it pressure checked. If you're lucky, the 0 psi is due to the head and not a ring. If your rings are burned, well, you know what that means-rebuild time.

I know you don't want to spend too much $$ but given the issues you're seeing right now, you may want to refresh more stuff than originally planned.

Taking the head off is not super hard-do remember the 2 small torx screws at the front, right next to the Vanos, and the little bracket on the passenger rear corner that holds the o2 sensor wiring.

supposedly 83K, of course said it ran really well, no, and absolutely not. I'll find out if it's a ring, HG, or valves with this leakdown today - hopefully i can borrow the tool.

thanks for the heads up.

Sorry bud, you head gasket/head are gone. Make sure to check all the valves to make sure they are not bent.

Once the head is off bring the pistons down in the bores and spray around the piston heavily with carb cleaner. This will clean the carbon deposits and loosen the rings so they can seal properly. They get carbon in them and gum up in the ring lands.

You may as well pull the front covers and check out the chain guides and probably replace those as well. Pull the oil pan and check the front nut on the pump, these have been known to back off. Clean and retighten using lock-tite.

Its like buying a used car or any piece of machinery, you have to expect to invest money in restoring it. If you though you where just going to buy this engine and drop it into the car lock stock and barrel, you where mistaken.

Your no longer a motor swap virgin, your getting your cherry popped right now. How its feel to get fucked? I only say that because my friend ran into a almost Identical problems when he purchased a M42 engine. The seller claimed it ran like a top with no noises or problems. 4 bent valves, wasted crank, timing components wiped out. About $3,500 later he had a running engine.

it hurts. and i want my mommy. :hitler:

the valves - if they are bent, would they definately leak during a leakdown? or is there a better or another way of finding out?

Plus when you get it in you can beat the piss out of it knowing that everything is good to go :)

that made me smile. :D

But, looks like there's gonna be lots of work before that happens...

[dude8383]

Oh man, nice to you getting a 24V!

As everyone else has mentioned, I would do a complete once-over on the whole motor. Replace whatever you can now because the motor is on an engine stand. It doesn't get any better than that.

[matt]

A head gasket is just as easy with the motor in the car, possibly easier.

If you can time your cams with the motor on a stand, you're doing it wrong (or you have a really awesome stand like ours).

[Farbin Kaiber]

You're saying the s52 heads have the same tendencies as m50 heads?

They ARE the same.

[MIKe30]

They ARE the same.

shows you how much i know. I thought m50/s50 heads were the same, m52/s52 heads were the same, but i guess not.


Anyway, I cant seem to find anywhere local that has a leakdown tester i can rent. Anybody on here local that has one?

edit: will this work? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94190

edit2: or this one? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=4317

[matt]

Either of those should be fine.