S54

[SA E30]

We're going to run a extra capacity, baffled s50 sump on our S54 in the race car but then I'm not worried because we have an sponsor for the engine's.

[deansbimmer]

So what kind of timetable are we looking at for having the PnP SEM online? Is it a 2010 thing or are we talking 2012 when the world ends? I'm excited!

[M3 euro ltw]

Groan...

Almost 2 weeks waiting for what I thought was going to be the killer solution for the DBW..and what shows is a pair of what I ordered, that are NOT what was pictured on their website.

Argggg..

Its not just the $130 or whatever down the drain, even if they refund it, its the time and aggravation.

May actually carve my own part from (?) and see if I can't mold temporary piece using a simple molding kit like Alumalite....

Then have someone make it....

[matt]

Looks like turn 3 at Road Atlanta. Nice pic.

[M3 euro ltw]

First try and attachement or link or photos..

Well, if this guy, see image.... is not having oil pressure issues, I think eveyone else will be ok.

Was trying to show a vivid example for "case in point"

Alex.

[gobuffs]

Just reading this and your previous post about it.... You said "oil starvation under braking" Braking = no throttle = no load

What happens with a E34 pan setup when youre flooring it out of a corner, all the oil flys to the back where there is no pickup. =Starvation.

on my E30 M3 S50B32 race car I have had oil pressure data from day 1 (5 years now) and I have never seen an oil starvation blip on the data. I have the E34 pan with no baffling. My data doesn't support your position.

[Mako18]

example...(click for full size)

[M3 euro ltw]

What happens with a E34 pan setup when youre flooring it out of a corner, all the oil flys to the back where there is no pickup.

Apparently nothing happens.

This is based on several customers racing S50BX engines with this mod and observing no issues whatsoever.

I think people generally know that I'm an E36 guy, so I've not personally had one of these E34 oilpans in my hands, but apparently the design is such, that much like OTHER front sumped E30 cars, there is no starvation issues when the car loads up in any direction. This is very different from rear sumped E36 cars....unless they run the rear sump dual pickup set up.

I understand your concern based on theory, but in practice, something else is observed.

[Wh33lhop]

"
On E30 transplants, using the E34 oilpan is a proven safe way to avoid starvation in even the most extreme conditions. (Mike Akard's car is an excellent example). On E36 cars, the dual pickup system is adequate for most competitive scenarios where a car is run for short duration. A cost effective way to ensure constant oilpressure would be an accusump."


Just reading this and your previous post about it.... You said "oil starvation under braking" Braking = no throttle = no load

What happens with a E34 pan setup when youre flooring it out of a corner, all the oil flys to the back where there is no pickup. =Starvation.

Yeah but the E34 pan design tends to keep oil in the front portion of the pan under conditions like that.

[328ijunkie]

"
On E30 transplants, using the E34 oilpan is a proven safe way to avoid starvation in even the most extreme conditions. (Mike Akard's car is an excellent example). On E36 cars, the dual pickup system is adequate for most competitive scenarios where a car is run for short duration. A cost effective way to ensure constant oilpressure would be an accusump."


Just reading this and your previous post about it.... You said "oil starvation under braking" Braking = no throttle = no load

What happens with a E34 pan setup when youre flooring it out of a corner, all the oil flys to the back where there is no pickup. =Starvation.

[M3 euro ltw]

Can bus and dry sump

Yes, they are capable of supporting installations with can bus.

TBH I don't know a lot about that feature at this point. I've been very focused on putting together a kit that will be as close to universally useful, very safe, and meets both BMW's and DTA's needs for safe running.

The differences in harness design, plugs, wire pathways etc are fascinating.

In terms of dry sumping there are a lot of opinions out there as to when this is beneficial vs when its overkill.

On E30 transplants, using the E34 oilpan is a proven safe way to avoid starvation in even the most extreme conditions. (Mike Akard's car is an excellent example). On E36 cars, the dual pickup system is adequate for most competitive scenarios where a car is run for short duration. A cost effective way to ensure constant oilpressure would be an accusump.

For endurance racing, extra oil capacity is very helpful. Dry sumping these engines can make a huge improvement in oil vapor management, however, it is not that difficult to vent to a can that drains to the pan, thus avoiding the fouling of the intake plenum. That personally would be my preference for competition cars with prolonged high rev environments.

(I have not personally raced the S54 yet, so I can not comment on just how bad this issue is for them. On prior SXX motors, it is a big issue, but this engine has a new and quite different vapor separator, yet BMW still feels the need to put an oil drain in the intake plenum. This does not bode well)

[Ray Smoodiver]

Will re-read the thread more thoroughly soon, but why not dry sump it?

[DaveSmed]

Alex is going to make me buy yet another car to stick an S54 into this time. Just what I need. :p

Those DTA SEMs are CANBus capable correct?

[FredK]

Glad to hear of all the progress you've made!

That's a great target price for a PnP setup, with a nice weathertight harness. Getting this stuff up and running remotely probably slowed things down, but you've made a lot of progress from the initial brainstorming to getting a first prototype done.

[M3 euro ltw]

Progress...

Painful and slow...

West coast S54 is up and running using a simplified installation. HFM is deleted, and WBO2 sensor added. So far no barometric compensation yet, this is a strict TPS vs RPM version using the SEM I'm involved with.

Prelim data with a incomplete tune, bone stock engine with factory intake manifold and factory headers. 320 at the rears. This corresponds well with quote of 365 at the crank from the guys who first got a S54 up and running on SEM of this brand.

The harness conversion is looking great...and will literally just plug right into the X20 on a E36. (It will be relatively easy to rebuild the connector to be a C101 I believe... but have to look at some more ETMs for the E30)

The only current actual modifications will be:

Delete HFM
Pull out 4 diodes from the vanos package on the engine (*)
Add a throttle cable when the DBW motor is removed.
Tap the intake manifold with a 12x1.5 tap to add an air temp sensor. (**)
Adding a non-adjustable FPR that is supplied. (***)

(*) Prototype of board for this arrives this next week!
(**) This is very easy, and the hole pre-exists from another use.
(**) This is controversial, but initial tune supplied will then be accurate. End user can use their own parts of course for anything they want to, but then they may have to retune at the dyno.....

Additional add-ons will be available, but they will increase the cost a little.
1) the ability to add on a barometric sensor to help compensate for altitude differences and/or Ram effect on a performance air intake system
2) the ability to add on WB O2 sensor to enable self-tuning for those that want it.
3) the ability to add on an oil temperatuare sensor that will tie into the BMW E30 M3 cluster, or an optional supplied E36 S50B32 cluster.

I have tentatively decided to include a pre-wired plug under the cam cover for people to add the WB system of their choice, and it is easy to bring those wires in through a factory grommet towards the back of the cam cover. (as the factory does actually)

I am still hoping to market the whole kit as above between $3000 to $3500 including the computer. This compares favorably with Motec, and even with a competitor's "P&P" system at $4500.... one that doesn't keep the vanos active! I've been a bit dissapointed at some of the cost increases due to items I did not anticipate EARLY on, such as the air temp sensor being built into the HFM, and the FPR not being on the engine. This was unfortunately due to my assumptions about the S54 being a close relative to the S50B32.

I'm sorry for the delay. I want a very professional execution of this kit's harness so that people can literally just put it on their engine, and have complete confidence in its weather resistance and integrity. With that goal in mind, I've found some pretty fancy materials that meet or exheed the BMW original factory harness, and this will end up being a very slick blend of the E36 style harness and the E46 harness....it will be a nearly seamless appearance.

More to come....my wife is going to kill me as I stay up late and work on this stuff.... the more boxes that show up at the door with "stuff", the higher her BP gets!