Rust repair: DIY or take it to a shop

[TurboFox93]

I have ZERO experience with body work. I can learn, but I dont want my first attempt to be an half assed job that makes the car look worse.

So heres what I have. Picked up a fairly descent Alpine E30 for $800:




The paint is in fairly good shape. It is not with out its flaws however. Here are some shots of the rust areas:

Passenger Tail light areas:




Drivers tail light area:


Trunk seam:


The battery tray area appears to be solid and no evidence of rust

Other than those exterior areas there appears to be maybe 3 other spots where the paint was chipped and developed rust similar to this:


Next I yanked the carpet:
Passenger side:




Passenger rear:



I was able to poke a hole into some spots in the passenger rear:



There appears to be no rust in the frame. So I would think I have a good car to start with. Which route would you all go in addressing these rust issues?

[der affe]

por15 the rust to start so you will have more time. look at your tail light and trunk seals to see where the water is getting in. get under the car and REALLY take a good hard look at everything. poke at the rust areas from the out side and see what happens.

[cobraken]

Great thread have similar problems, I purchased POR 15 as well, just havnt used it yet. Stuff is not cheap either! And its suggested to use all contents in once use. Only problem for you is its black. My car is black so no problems there. I will keep my eyes on this. thread to see were it goes. Good luck.

[IronmanE30]

por15 the rust to start so you will have more time. look at your tail light and trunk seals to see where the water is getting in. get under the car and REALLY take a good hard look at everything. poke at the rust areas from the out side and see what happens.

Agreed, Por15 is a great start if you are not going to fix it right away. Make sure the area is as clean as you can get it before you put on the Por15. If you are going to weld things right away skip the Por15 until you are done as it will just make a mess of the repair area. My first rust repair was on my 1955 Porsche which had major rust problems. If you are going to do this then get an old hood form the junk yard or ??? and some metal sheers. Cut and weld, cut and weld. Practice on long pieces in flat areas. These are the hardest to weld without warping the sheet metal. There are articles all over the internet on the process but to make a long story short you want to heat up the metal as little as possible. Do short fast welds move across the panel tacking it in quarters? Then go in between those welds and keep it up until you have a solid weld across the repair area. Take your time and don't try to get too long of a weld in one place or else you will warp the metal. If you do warp the metal this can be fixed with the pointed body hammer and a dolly or in the worst case a little more heat then use the body hammer and dolly. Finish it off with a nice “thin” coat of bondo. They say 1/8” max on the bondo but I have seen it used much thicker. Just try to use as little as possible.

If you have never done this and don't have the tools expect to spend around $1000 on tools. You don't need a Mig welder (although it is nice) all you really need is a Oxy-Acetylene (gas) welder. The estimate to just cut and glue in new metal on my Porsche was $2500 30 years ago so the savings and experience make it a no brainer. Remember the value of your car is not too much so it is a great place to learn. Start in the tight areas that will be hidden and finish up with the exposed areas that will be seen when you are done. I would suggest that you go for it and have fun learning how to do body work. There is usually a class available that would really help you get a jump start and save on the costs of buying your own tools. These classes sometimes have a paint area for the students to use which also helps out a lot. I only do body work on my own cars because it is not that much fun but it does save you allot on project costs.

Cheers,

Jim

[TurboFox93]

What areas would you cut and weld? The tail light area looks like it would be tricky?

Also whats the best way to do the POR 15? Any idea on the color of the stuff from Wurth?

Additionally, how much paint/material would you remove to assess the degree of rust? Also what would you use? I have a dremel...would this be enough? I am concerned, especially around the tail light area, that I will screw up the paint.

[cobraken]

POR 15 is some black thick nasty stuff. I still havnt POR 15ed my car yet, soon though.

[IronmanE30]

What areas would you cut and weld? The tail light area looks like it would be tricky?

Also whats the best way to do the POR 15? Any idea on the color of the stuff from Wurth?

Additionally, how much paint/material would you remove to assess the degree of rust? Also what would you use? I have a dremel...would this be enough? I am concerned, especially around the tail light area, that I will screw up the paint.

Clean all areas to see what you have left of good metal. If you have a hole then you will need to cut old metal out until you get to good metal and then weld in a new piece. If it can be cleaned and there is still good metal, no holes, then prep and prime that area.

Usually we remove at least one inch beyond the rusted area sometimes it ends up larger. The dremel will work or by hand with course sand paper and a wire brush. There is also some acid treatments to clean the metal but I did not use this on my project.

Cheers,

Jim

[Pudmunkie]

If you decide to attempt the repair (cut and weld patch panel in) I have a spare tail light section. The car is going to the junk yard soon so let me know if you want me to cut it out.

[der affe]

IIRC the wurth stuff is clear, black,gray and white. non of them will match the colour of your car though

[TurboFox93]

Not so much looking for exact color match. But something that wouldn't "bleed" through".

How much do you want for the tail light section?

Any recommendations on welders?

What the hell should I do about the trunk seam near the lock?

Thanks for bearing with me through all of these questions. You all have been very helpful.

[Need4Speed1299]

I must say, for those couple of spots, your car is pretty clean. I would take a whole different route when repairing this though. I would sand blast it and paint it. The drivers tail would need a small piece welded in. I would recommend any miller MIG welder with some .023 wire. Very forgiving wire thickness and easy to use. You can get a MIG welder without gas, but it leaves slag.

[TurboFox93]

I am about to wire brush some of these areas to see the extent.

When is the metal that is in place "salvageable"? Do product like POR-15 and Wurth really work to halt the rust?

I am considering a welder depending on the degree of rust I find. Any recommendations on books regarding bodywork and/or welding? I figure I can practice welding on the e36 that I have sitting next to it :D

[der affe]

you might want to just replace the whole rear panel. im the end it might just prove easier than a bunch of patches. have you concidered taking a bodywork class or welding class at the local JC?

a bodywork class would give you a way and place to do the work w/o you having to buy a welder and would allow you to paint it too. all under the supervision of a trained teacher.

to someone who does bodywork just replacing the rear body panel is a simple deal and the way to go. to someone who has no experence there is lots of room to f -it up.

having a welder is nice, but you are blowing your $ on a crappy non flux core from harbor freight or home depot/lowes. if you can't afford a decent 120 amp with sheilding gas don't spend your $ until you can. you will be glad you bought the better welder.

[TurboFox93]

What brand/model welder would you recommend? Also what tool would you use to cut these pieces out?

[TurboFox93]

Wire brush reveals:

Overview of the passenger side that I brushed:


Details of the various spots:












Rear passenger:






Ugh. Cut and weld? Treat it and forget it? It amazing how much rust is really there when you start looking for it.