early vs late model front doors

[Jean]

I would really like to confirm what the real difference is between the early vs late model e30 front doors.

Do some doors not have provisions for the manual/electric actuators?

Looking on realoem it appears that there are more than one part number for the 2door front doors (not counting vert doors of course).

41518106931 vs 41511965017 ?



For example, will I be able to swap a late model door for my early 318i and transfer the manual window regulator/glass or is there actually a difference in the door structure itself?

I can't for the life of me find out any factual data on this, and obviously would like to expand my choices as much as possible / if possible.

Thanks

[CntrlcoastE30's]

Jean,

The main difference between early and late doors is how the motors are mounted. The early doors have specific holes that hold the early manual and nylon style window lifts. The manual set-up is the same nylon snake, although obviously w/out the electrical component.

The late door has different sheet metal, so the holes to mount the late scissor style motor correspond to those. Another difference is that the glass is also early vs. late specific. In other words, a late piece of glass will not work with the early motor set-up. This is because the aluminum tracks that are glued to the glass are located in different places.

This information is from experience. I have updated the early door with the late motor/lift/glass successfully on both sides with careful measurement and a little hammer work. If you have any additional questions just ask.

Although I have never seen a late door with a manual set-up that does not mean that they do not exist in another market abroad.

[87e30]

Jean,

The main difference between early and late doors is how the motors are mounted. The early doors have specific holes that hold the early manual and nylon style window lifts. The manual set-up is the same nylon snake, although obviously w/out the electrical component.

The late door has different sheet metal, so the holes to mount the late scissor style motor correspond to those. Another difference is that the glass is also early vs. late specific. In other words, a late piece of glass will not work with the early motor set-up. This is because the aluminum tracks that are glued to the glass are located in different places.

This information is from experience. I have updated the early door with the late motor/lift/glass successfully on both sides with careful measurement and a little hammer work. If you have any additional questions just ask.

Although I have never seen a late door with a manual set-up that does not mean that they do not exist in another market abroad.

Is the late scissor door faster? I always thought it was just because the cars were newer... wooops

[Jean]

Yes, I am aware of the difference between the actuators and glass (I've replaced the glass on my early car and also had an 89 325i with power glass for a bit) but wasn't sure if the door sheet metal itself is different?

Thanks!

[Raxe]

Jean,

The main difference between early and late doors is how the motors are mounted. The early doors have specific holes that hold the early manual and nylon style window lifts. The manual set-up is the same nylon snake, although obviously w/out the electrical component.

The late door has different sheet metal, so the holes to mount the late scissor style motor correspond to those. Another difference is that the glass is also early vs. late specific. In other words, a late piece of glass will not work with the early motor set-up. This is because the aluminum tracks that are glued to the glass are located in different places.

This information is from experience. I have updated the early door with the late motor/lift/glass successfully on both sides with careful measurement and a little hammer work. If you have any additional questions just ask.

Although I have never seen a late door with a manual set-up that does not mean that they do not exist in another market abroad.

My late model (1988) doors came with manual windows from the factory, so yes, they do indeed exist. Great post by the way.

[gearheadE30]

Is the late scissor door faster? I always thought it was just because the cars were newer... wooops

The scissor doors aren't really supposed to be any faster, but the design is far superior and doesn't wear as badly, so after all this time, they tend to be working better.

[Huff]

Yes, I am aware of the difference between the actuators and glass (I've replaced the glass on my early car and also had an 89 325i with power glass for a bit) but wasn't sure if the door sheet metal itself is different?

Thanks!

I SWEAR that the metal is different on early model doors. I've checked the thickness and really can't tell, but the early ones feel SO much more solid. My

[Jean]

Spoke with a local bmw/mini dealer parts dept about an hour ago, they looked up an 84 318i and said it uses the same door as on 325e 325i 325is and 325ix so it can't be specific to early models.

I asked about the window hardware and he made it sound like the door frame itself is the same and has provisions for both regulators..

Also called Bavarian in rancho, and of course they don't sell doors by the color but told me the same thing, the doors aren't different (other than m3/vert) and window regular/glass hardware swaps...

Argh.

[kway]

The hinges are different. Early uses a pin you have to drive out to split the hinge, late has bolts at the pivot point to hold it together.

I can post comparative pics when I get home. FWIW, even late doors still have all the mounting holes for early regulators.

[Jean]

Hi Keith,

If you can post some good pics to show the mounting points / differences that would be great!

If the hinges are in the same spot etc, then the pin vs. bolt differences should not be an issue right?

Jean.

[kway]

Early hinge:



Late hinge:



Mounting point for hinge, door side (looks like early/late are same):



Provision for early regulator on late door:



So based on what I'm seeing, you shouldn't have any problem putting a late door on an early car; you'll just have to swap the half-hinges from the early one over. I didn't bother measuring the height of the striker, because to be honest I didn't think of it till just now. I can't imagine it's any different though.

I can measure it for you if you really want to be sure, but it'll have to wait till tomorrow cause it's damn cold to be going back outside and I'm already in my PJ's, lol.

I can't comment directly on late regulator into early door, but it doesn't seem like that's what you're looking to do anyway.

[Jean]

Thank you Keith! It looks like the hinge difference might not be an issue, since the early style part on the door will interchange and will match the chassis side.

I will take a look tomorrrow and maybe find two parts cars to measure!

[87e30]

Why can't the late model hinge be bolted straight onto the early model chassis?

[Jean]

The hinge on the chassis side is welded as you can see, so it has to be swapped on the door side..

[87e30]

The hinge on the chassis side is welded as you can see, so it has to be swapped on the door side..

Oh shit. I was definitely think the weld was on the door not the chassis... woops! Okay this makes a lot more sense now, and seems like an easy way to grab the scissor window setup if you're already planning on painting the car.