Windows (not the damn fuse)

[Wh33lhop]

My windows stopped working abruptly the other day. Fuse 17 is fine, in fact every single fuse in the fuse box is fine. The mirrors work as well.

The switches are no longer illuminated (showing that they're getting no power). It's not the circuit breaker as I took it out and shorted the two wires together, still nothing.

I think the culprit was some splicers on the power and ground wires going to the switches (was testing for an E36 switch retrofit) whose fasteners came loose, and it's possible I shorted power to ground through the metal in the splicers touching.

I'm going to have tomorrow be a fix-shit-on-the-car day (today's the bday), and it's summer in southern california with no working AC, let's just say I've got the sunroof open and open the door at every stoplight for cooling. So please, throw some ideas my way if you can.

[Teaguer]

I would throw some ideas but it sounds like youve already checked the usual suspects and have a handle on it.

If your car is an early model you can always roll down the windows with the allen tool in the toolkit.


Happy birthday. :p

[Wh33lhop]

Yeah, unfortunately I'm all out of ideas now. Relays maybe? Is there a specific relay that triggers the switch power? Seems like it's the same relay as the cig lighter (since the switches are illuminated every time the car starts), I'll see if the cig lighter works tomorrow, hopefully that's it because that's the last idea I've got.

[zedfez]

It sounds like it could be the K5 unloader relay. Test for voltage at pin 30 (it should be ~12v). If it has power, try jumping pin 30 to pin 87, that effectively bypasses the relay. If that makes your windows work, the problem is in the relay.

I don't know if you have a power sunroof, but if you do, that operates on the same relay, so if it is working, the relay is not to blame. If the power sunroof works, the problem has to be somewhere downstream of splice S224. Did you test for voltage at the circut breaker or just bypass it?

[Wh33lhop]

The sunroof still works.

In the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual I see a "main power switch" and a "child safety power switch." As well as a relay, all controlling the power. I'd assume that the circuit breaker is one of those switches, any idea where to find the other?

I looked under the driver's side dash but it's just a huge tangle of wires and connectors.

[///M42 sport]

look at the switch itself

[Wh33lhop]

look at the switch itself

What switch? It's not the circuit breaker.

[bmw325csi]

remove your window lock switch and bridge the wires, see if that works

[///M42 sport]

What switch? It's not the circuit breaker.

take apart your window switch and clean it out.

[slow e30]

stupid question, but you did check the lock switch right? i had the same issue as you, and i started making 4 letter words, then i saw the switch. i laughed at myself.

just asking, is all.

[Wh33lhop]

remove your window lock switch and bridge the wires, see if that works

take apart your window switch and clean it out.

stupid question, but you did check the lock switch right? i had the same issue as you, and i started making 4 letter words, then i saw the switch. i laughed at myself.

just asking, is all.

It's not the circuit breaker as I took it out and shorted the two wires together, still nothing.

Any other ideas? It's an 87, I popped off the plug in the door but there was nothing to roll the window up or down, just a thick membrane. Do I have to break through that in order to get at the crank nut? I don't want to break that seal if I don't have to.

[zedfez]

If the window motors are the same as the ones in my '84e, you do have to pop through the membrane. There will be an allen socket on the other side, I think it is 7mm.

In terms of fixing the motor issue, ignore the Haynes diagram. They are just confusing. Use the electrical troubleshooting manual. The one for '87 is here. The power window stuff starts on page 40, just make sure you are looking at the diagram with the right number of doors. The next thing I would recommend would be to check for power at pin 3 on the window switch (the one you use to put them up and down). If there is power there, the switches are probably to blame. Sometimes you can just clean the contacts inside, otherwise they have to be replaced. If you want to check the motors, you can pull the switch off and ground pin 1 on the connector and apply power to pin 8, you should hear the motor run.

If neither of those work, just use the wiring diagram and work back through all the connections. It is pretty simple, as the whole system is 12v. You don't really even need a multimeter. The only tricky part is finding some of the connectors, but the troubleshooting manual has pictures and a location listing at the end.

[Outside Groove]

Got this same issue on an 86 325e. My son installed an aftermarket radio and then on the way home noticed that both windows won't work. They worked fine before. You got one of those .pdf's for an 86 handy so I can go over and figure it out for him in the AM?

[Wh33lhop]

If the window motors are the same as the ones in my '84e, you do have to pop through the membrane. There will be an allen socket on the other side, I think it is 7mm.

In terms of fixing the motor issue, ignore the Haynes diagram. They are just confusing. Use the electrical troubleshooting manual. The one for '87 is here. The power window stuff starts on page 40, just make sure you are looking at the diagram with the right number of doors. The next thing I would recommend would be to check for power at pin 3 on the window switch (the one you use to put them up and down). If there is power there, the switches are probably to blame. Sometimes you can just clean the contacts inside, otherwise they have to be replaced. If you want to check the motors, you can pull the switch off and ground pin 1 on the connector and apply power to pin 8, you should hear the motor run.

If neither of those work, just use the wiring diagram and work back through all the connections. It is pretty simple, as the whole system is 12v. You don't really even need a multimeter. The only tricky part is finding some of the connectors, but the troubleshooting manual has pictures and a location listing at the end.

Excellent. Thanks, you've been a huge help.

Now, I think what I checked was the child safety switch (although I've heard it referred to as the circuit breaker). For confirmation, where's the circuit breaker located on an '87 4 door? To the left of the hazard/rear defrost switches?

[Stevie30]

Be sure to check the black/green wire connection on your starter. Clean the connection and re-connect. This wire supplies the K5 and K7 unloader relays that feed your power windows and blower motor. I'll bet your blower is not working also?