Requesting your opinion on car audio...

[mbonder]

It's come that time of year again when I get to blow some money on a present for myself all in the name of celebrating the birth of christ ;) . Anyway, I'd like to almost completely remake the audio in my car, and in this quest is where I need the car audio experts on this boards help.

I've read the latest threads from people either changing some or all of their stereo system. Personally, I listen to classic rock music, and therefore would like to tailor my stereo to meet those needs, not some bump in the trunk rap crap!!

So far here's what I've seen:

I like the look of two posts in the past, namely jorden's and jimi318is, as far as complete installs I think these two individuals did a hell of a job keeping with the kind of factory look that I would like to achieve. I like the idea of the changed speaker angle in the kick panel(although I'm not sure about the dead pedal issue yet). I also like the flip down seat in jimi's car, although I would probably still put the amp in the trunk instead of the seat back.

Here's the equipment that I've heard people talk about the most here:
Components: Infinity Kappa Perfects, MB Quarts, CDT's(kencopperwheat has these) Image Dynamics Chameleons
Amps:So far I've looked a jordan's JL audios, a/d/s, Soundstream reference, precision power
Sub(s): JL audio, Orion, very much open to suggestions on this one.

Sorry that was so long, but if I'm going to do this and spend the money, I want it done right with the right equipment and such. I have never done a complete install and that may be why I have so many questions, hopefully you guys can be kind and supply me with some answers.

thanks again,

matt

[StereoInstaller1]

Matt, here are my suggestions:
1. More power, up to a point.
2. The fewest possible speakers to cover the frequency ranges you want to hear.
3. Custom box for a single 10", with all of the output sealed into the car.

I have become "Brand Name Agnostic" after seeing so many quality products turn to shit, and so many crappy companies make good stuff.

Ever see a Jensen KA series amp? No? Because their 5 channel is like $900 retail...truly an awesome amp, but who would pay so much for that brand name?

Amps I like: (leaving Faze, Milbert, Sony ES Reference and other stupid expensive amps out)
1. Zapco, above studio series
2. Kenwood "Excelon" ONLY
3. JL, NOT the "e" crap
4 Fosgate, before 1995 or after 2003, "Punch" series.
5. my 1985 (oooooh, vintage!) Harman/Kardon CA260's
6. Current Infinity amps...for cheap crap, sound great!
7. New Orion, but only HCCA amps from their past seem to be the real thing. New Orion looks like Viper/DEI/PPI, since it is the same sompany, that is no suprise.
OLD PPI, HiFonics, late 80's Soundstream and a few others use a tightly regulated power supply, makes tighter bass, albiet not as "loud" as a loosely regulated PS.

If I had boatloads of money, I would have a total of 7 speakers, and 7 amps. I would use a REAL JBL GTi 1200, Dynaudio system 360 for everything else. I would find 7 Zapco System 200 amps and have every resistor and capacitor changed. I would use a Theta D to A converter, made to run 12 volt and a Nakamichi preamp....AudioControl 4 way crossover. Figure $30K in gear, plus cables.

Maybe call someone like Nelson Pass and consign him to make me 7 channels of 12 volt power...Hmmm...Pass Labs 7/12? $35,000 please!

LOTS of other amps I dislike.

I would recommend you start with a 4 channel amp with variable crossovers. Run 2 channels to your front components, bridge the other 2 channels onto a single 4 ohm 10" or 12" subwoofer, in a custom box.
Later, change the sub to a DVC and add a sub amp, add a seperate electronic crossover, remove your passive crossovers. Jordan and I both run seperate amps for tweet, mid and woof. IF you are using an electronic crossover before your amps, this is called "Tri-Amp" and is a truly amazing sound.

I use an AudioControl 6XS, he uses internal crossovers on his JL amps. I am running a mismash of crap amps, but the car sounds amazing.

Oh, and BTW, Kappa seperates sound better to my ear than "Perfect" series. All of the speakers mentioned in your post are great speakers, but IMHO, are crap compared to Morel and Dynaudio, but AFAIK, no one on here is looking to put a Ferrari or Lambo motor in their E30. I also like Focal, but a bit tinkly to my ear, as are the Diamonds. I run Quart midline seperates, but find them way too bright. Another advantage of the triamp method is totally seperate gain adjustments....huge advantage there.

Oh well...more later.
Luke

[spud814]

Hey StereoInstaller, Best post i've read in a while. :D I gotta agree with everything you said.

[mbonder]

alright, my head is spinning a little bit after reading all that you have to say, but I'm glad that you are helping explain all of these things to me :D . I guess here's where I hit you with a fair amount of beginner questions just to have a better sense of where I should be going.

I think that one 10" or 12" sub mounted in an inclosed box in the trunk facing the cabin of the car is the way to go for me. I would really like to work the fold down seat into things, but I don't know if I have the money to do the work on the seat. Also, should i keep the box completely sealed or have it ported, and if so, what location works best?

You didn't mention much about the components (besides the comment about the perfects v. separates), I would like to know what your feeling is on having components up front as well as something in the rear shelf (yay or nay on rear shelf speakers??).
I'm a little confused about this "tri-amping" you speak of and would like to know more. I guess a discussion of crossovers and how exactly they should be set up would fall in here as well.

thanks so much, i'm sure there'll be more but thats all for now,

matt

[StereoInstaller1]

Matt, there has been so much controversy, name calling, fights, and maternal slurs regarding the subject of ported vs. sealed that I am not willing to go on record saying anything other than that I use the woofers parameters to decide whether the woof wants sealed or vented.
Aside from that, I prefer a low "Q" woofer in a large vented box. Much harder to get right, much harder to install, but most of my thousands of customers prefer vented too.
There are two basic types...electronic happens before the amp, so the amp sees only the signal you assign it...passive happens after the amp, so it sees a full range signal, and is divided 2,3,or 4 ways (or however many ways you wanna divide it)
As far as an explanation of crossovers, there has been much discussion of slopes (AKA orders) and crossover points....bi amping is, simply put, where an electronic crossover is used to divide frequencies into low pass and high pass. Tri-amp means there is a 3 way split, being a low pass for the bass, a "bandpass" for the midrange ad a high pass for the upper frequencies.
The reson we use crossovers in the first place is to control the information being fed to the speaker, which helps "directivity" (can make a more or less open sound) and improves power handling abilities.
in the case of a bi- or tri- amped system, this also allows you to set the level of the woof vs. the high end independently...the benefit is amazing.
Luke

[mbonder]

Alright, crossovers are much clearer to me now.

After going over and reading everything, it seems that purchasing an amp that has built in crossovers would be the easiest way to set things up(i believe that is what Jordan has). I guess I could be wrong on that, but to me less wiring ans such would make it easier, as well as looking for places to mount all of this stuff. That being said, I pose this question to all of you: should i put speakers in the rear deck? This question answered would help me determine what kind of amp i am looking for, seeing as I would Need 6 channels vs. 4 if I delete the rear shalf speakers. (also along that line, should i just go with a midbass set or keep with the factory idea of a midbass and tweeter in the back?)

I still haven't gotten too many opinions on the components for the front, anyone want to add their two cents??

matt

[DrMcDave]

edit: i get it now- stupid question the first time.

my focals arent all that great for classic rock, atleast not how i have them "tuned" at the moment. they are amazing for electronic music and things of that nature. i have 3 ways, w/ the 4 inch in teh door and a 6.5 in the stock location and also a tweeter also in stock location.

Image dynamics makes nice subs, i should have mine installed within the next week or two. IDmax 10"