89 325i speaker set up

[terible1biker57]

CAR:1989 325i with stock non premium 4 speaker system

So my car audio hasn't worked for quiet some time so i pulled the speakers and discovered this:



Anyways I am trying to find some SQ speakers to replace these.I am not adding a sub-woofer. So far I have found these:

Precision Power PPI 355CS

• 5-1/4" 2-way Component System
• Power Handling:
  • Peak: 200 watts per set / 100 watts each side
  • RMS: 100 watts per set / 50 watts each side
  
  
• Kevlar, mica, fiberglass interlaced cone woofer
• Silk dome tweeter
• Phase plug for controlled interaction between mid and high frequencies
• Woven tinsel leads
• 4 ohms impedance
• Copper clad aluminum voice coil
• Custom Crossover
  • 12 dB High pass configuration
  • 6 dB Low pass
  • +3 dB Tweeter level adjustments
  • 180º Tweeter phase adjustments
  • Multi stage tweeter protection
  • Bi-ampable mid/mid-bass Zobel circuit
  
  
• Top-mount depth: 2-1/2"

They are $75 on ebay from sonicelectronix.com

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17117_Precision+Power+PPI+355CS.html

Eclipse SP5010

• 5-1/4" Point Source Series Car Speakers
• Power Handling:
  • Peak: 300 watts per pair / 150 watts each
  • RMS: 100 watts per pair / 50 watts each
  
  
• Carbon fiber with cotton backing cone woofer
• Rubber surround
• 1" Silk soft dome tweeter
• Neodymium tweeter magnet
• 4 ohms impedance
• Aluminum voice coil former
• Ferrite magnet structure
• Top-mount depth: 2-1/4"

They are $79 on sonicelectronix.com

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11716_Eclipse+SP5010.html

Looking at their frequency response it looks like the Power Precisions go a little lower. Since I'm not getting a sub-woofer it would be best to get the lowest possible frequency response.Right?

Has anyone used these speakers before?

Is it possible to put slightly larger speakers in the stock location.

[Eric Giles]

I have been meaning to make a post about the PPI 355CS component speaker system. There is a big thread on them over at diymobileaudio.com, which is where I found out about them.

First a bit of a history lesson on them-these are actually the older a/d/s/ 346CS component system that was out a few years ago and retailed for around $400-450 a set. After Directed Electronics purchased a/d/s/ and shut them down, they improved the midbass unit and rebadged them under their PPI brand name. If you are not familiar with a/d/s/, they were one of the top high end home and car audio manufacturers in the US for many years. Some of their 20 year old car amplifiers are still highly regarded for their sound quality, and they are very reliable. I have two a/d/s/ PH15 6 channel amplifiers that are both close to 20 years old and they work perfectly-and are still being used in my E30's. Their car speakers were also very highly regarded, and were always one of the top choices on the market.

The passive crossover network that comes with these is massive-very heavy, uses very high quality components, and is very versatile. I know of people that have purchased these components to run in an active crossover setup and have sold the passive crossovers for $50-70-they are that nice.

I have this set installed in my '87 325is using the stock locations. I have them actively crossed over using the built in 3 way active crossover setup in my Alpine CDA-9835. An active setup takes a good bit more tuning to get to sound right, but when you do the difference is readily noticeable.

This speaker setup sounds excellent, and I will boldly say there is no way in hell you will find a nicer, better sounding component speaker system for $75 than these. I bought mine when there were just over $100 and would have paid $300 for them-they are worth it. If anyone wants to run these active in their E30 I will give you some starting points for the crossover points and slopes as well as levels.

[StereoInstaller1]

Lemme add this: Those PPi speakers need to be mounted in such a way as to NOT prevent the cone from moving. Take a look at that pic, see how the surround protrudes from the frame? If you were to mount them under the stock grille, they would hit the kickpanel.

I know Eric made sure to leave room for cone movement, but he is also running them in high pass, so cone motion is minimized. Those speakers are pretty damn impressive though, I will turn people on to them as I no longer offer a 5.25" speaker.

The other issue that you will find is the common "no bass" thing...and I am not talking about "boom", but basic low end that we have come to expect...E30 are highly bass-resistant, and the fact that upper end speakers are intended to be used with a sub, so no decent midrange can even make bass, much less make enough bass to be able to enjoy your music without a sub...well, go ahead and get them, then let us know.

Luke

And...

Those Eclipse are crap: buy WalMart Pioneers instead, they sound better.

[Eric Giles]

Luke is correct, and I didn't think about mentioning the possible 'issue' with the woofer surround. Even if you run them full range, you are just not going to get good bass response out of a 5.25" driver in an E30 at the stock kickpanel location.

I highly recommend getting some sound deadening material and covering the area behind the speaker magnet and the outside area of the kickpanel where the speaker mounts. This will definitely cut down on the metal resonance in that area and will help improve the midbass-it made a difference in mine. Adding the sound deadening material as well as some thick gasket material around the outer edge of the speaker surround will help to keep the kickpanel cover away and not interfere as much with cone movement.

[Alpine003]

Damn you guys are evil. PPI's are on their way even though I have some Focals already. I guess there's always some extra equipment that will be sitting on the shelves...

[StereoInstaller1]

IMO, Focal is the most overpriced, most overhyped speakers around these parts. Piss poor power handling, very poor reliability, very power hungry, blah blah blah.

NOT a fan at all. Never saw what all the excitement was about.

So, sell them. Especially here, in Seattle. People drool like retards, they fetch top dollar.

[Alpine003]

IMO, Focal is the most overpriced, most overhyped speakers around these parts. Piss poor power handling, very poor reliability, very power hungry, blah blah blah.

NOT a fan at all. Never saw what all the excitement was about.

So, sell them. Especially here, in Seattle. People drool like retards, they fetch top dollar.

Maybe the new ones as I haven't kept up with them lately but I have the older ones and they are(were) very comparable to Dynaudios. I do see that Focal is marketing lower lines now so maybe that's what you're talking about? I'm not talking out of my ass either on the comparison as I measured both on the TDS equipment. The only negative about mine are the tweeters can be a little on the harsh side but not to the point like MB Quarts. But I do agree that they are overpriced and lately overhyped.

[StereoInstaller1]

Maybe the new ones as I haven't kept up with them lately but I have the older ones and they are(were) very comparable to Dynaudios. I do see that Focal is marketing lower lines now so maybe that's what you're talking about? I'm not talking out of my ass either on the comparison as I measured both on the TDS equipment. The only negative about mine are the tweeters can be a little on the harsh side but not to the point like MB Quarts. But I do agree that they are overpriced and lately overhyped.

No, man, no one said nothing about you not knowing your shit...the older ones were pretty damn decent (motorsport line?) but the new cheapie line is even made in goddamn china!

My beef is not so much the speaker, but the hype and the price.

When I listen to the Pioneer set sold at WalMart for $130 and it plays cleaner, cleaprer, with better detail AND louder that the $450 set of Focals, I get pissed...especially with both sets made in China.

I guess hype pisses me off most.

Luke

[Alpine003]

No, man, no one said nothing about you not knowing your shit...the older ones were pretty damn decent (motorsport line?) but the new cheapie line is even made in goddamn china!

My beef is not so much the speaker, but the hype and the price.

When I listen to the Pioneer set sold at WalMart for $130 and it plays cleaner, cleaprer, with better detail AND louder that the $450 set of Focals, I get pissed...especially with both sets made in China.

I guess hype pisses me off most.

Luke

Fully agree. Way too many fan boi's on the intrwebz hyping up demand which in turns increases price. As for made in China, that is just the new reality we live in these days with most products. Just make sure you wash your hands after you handle new cheaper Focals and other products. You don't want to take a chance with lead paint. lol.

Also got to check my drywall, I've been getting nose bleeds lately...

[StereoInstaller1]

Since it is all hype and marketing I think I just might jump on that bandwagon.

Fuck'em, right?

[harv]

Luke,

Will those PPIs fit in the rear premium speaker housings on the back deck?

John

[Alpine003]

BTW, the ones I got (and I'm assuming the better Focal models) are made in France. I don't know if that's good or bad, or you can pay more for the competition made in Denmark.

[Alpine003]

Bumping this as I got the PPI's in the mail today and upon initial observation was thoroughly impressed at every single aspect. Dare I say this has to be one of the best bang for the buck speaker components? Any other components that you can think of Luke in terms of bang for the buck?

I haven't hooked them up so I can't comment on the sound yet but everything else seems really solid. I'm just so attached to my Sparkomatic and Pyramid at the moment. I was going to buy Kenford or Rockwood but found these instead...

[Eric Giles]

They are damn impressive aren't they? I don't mean to speak for Luke, but I would be willing to bet money there isn't a single other component speaker on the market that can even come close to these in terms of price. Being as that they originally retailed for over $400, they compete very well with components in that price range also...getting them for under $80, well, you are almost stealing them.

BTW-I have a set of the 356CS components-same exact tweeter and crossover, but the mid is 6.5" instead of 5.25". They are brand new, in the box never opened. I was going to do an install in my E39 M5 but changed my mind, so these are up for sale. $130 shipped UPS ground if anyone is interested in putting these in a later model E30's door.

[Alpine003]

They are damn impressive aren't they? I don't mean to speak for Luke, but I would be willing to bet money there isn't a single other component speaker on the market that can even come close to these in terms of price. Being as that they originally retailed for over $400, they compete very well with components in that price range also...getting them for under $80, well, you are almost stealing them.

I almost feel like buying a few more sets for any future cars I might get. :) I wouldn't be surprised if the reseller got them below or close to any associated factory production costs. Although made in China, they are ISO9001 approved and the quality of materials/components/tooling/finish have to add up to some $ themselves.

I also saw on the box that read Directed Electronics. Does anyone know if this is the same as DEI(Hornet/Viper/Ungo/etc.) that make the alarms?

It's crazy how so many audio companies have been bought/sold/merged/outsourced since the 80's.