Ok i need some sound system advice (paging Luke)

[iamsam]

Pretty sound advice. My statements above were a bit scatterbrained, but I thought I'd just throw a bit of my own advice in there.

the jist of what you're saying I think OP understood, though. 'real' music gets a higher low pass filter frequency and less gain, to get thump and heavy bass you're going to want to drop the filter to a lower frequency range and turning up the gain to produce a much louder bass signal in comparison to the rest of your stereo.

You're basically tuning your stereo to the style of music or production. You might even find some variance between specific artists or eras of music that might inspire you to change your EQ settings a lot. I always do =/

They need to put custom EQ presets in head units more often.

yeah my cd deck has no options whatsoever, and i just mounted my amp in such a way that i would have to take my rear seats out to dismount the amp so i can get to the controls.

my cd deck only has the generic low mid and high level settings, and some extra bass boost option with off, and level one and level two. I have it on the "off" setting, and i have the bass level turned up to 2 (mids 5 and highs 8 ) and it seems ok atm.

[genocide98]

OK, so WTF...a R3V member who actually knows something about frequencies as they relate to music?

How the hell could this happen?

This guy is actually eloquent, too! Decent sentence structure, adequate grammar...damn, I am impressed!

Long time guitar/bass player... Part time audiophile/gear nerd... and a novice bmw enthusiast. lol

So, on to the tech. Standard bass guitar tuning is as follows:

and of course, this is primary frequencies, not allowing for harmonics and sub-harmonics, but you get the idea. Your subwoofer should handle about 85% of the sound of a bass guitar.

You should have some kind of high pass filter to keep the stock location speakers (satellite speakers) from playing much below 125Hz or so, but it isn't like a rev limiter, it is a gradual drop off in frequencies (called "slope") and is generally expressed in "db" per "octave".

Likewise, your sub will have a "low pass" filter to prevent higher frequencies from drowning out the mids and highs and muddying them.

My general recommendations are somewhere around 125Hz for high pass if 12db/oct, and lower if your midrange drivers can handle it.

Low pass on the subwoofer should run about 80hz or so as most low pass filters are 12db/oct. If you want boom only, you can go lower and raise your gains...or, if you are looking to listen to actual music, you can raise them a bit and drop the gains to get a real balance.

Oh, that "Q bass" thing is a bass knob. Same as "BASS" on your deck, but a lower frequency.

Pitch that crap out the window.

Luke

Pretty sound advice. My statements above were a bit scatterbrained, but I thought I'd just throw a bit of my own advice in there.

the jist of what you're saying I think OP understood, though. 'real' music gets a higher low pass filter frequency and less gain, to get thump and heavy bass you're going to want to drop the filter to a lower frequency range and turning up the gain to produce a much louder bass signal in comparison to the rest of your stereo.

You're basically tuning your stereo to the style of music or production. You might even find some variance between specific artists or eras of music that might inspire you to change your EQ settings a lot. I always do =/

They need to put custom EQ presets in head units more often.

[iamsam]

so to listen to "real music" (i.e. Iron Maiden), i should lower the gain a bit and raise the crossover frequency?

btw thanks so much for all the help guys!

[StereoInstaller1]

To be honest harris uses a pretty mid/high heavy bass tone, for more punch and clarity over girth due to his playing style.

IMO, the subwoofer simply fills out the bottom end, and if you've got a crossover or something you're going to be cutting out most 'guitar' and 'bass' frequencies anyway.

Guitar in standard tune, the low E string is about 80hz iirc, and bass goes all the way down to 40 or something close, but most of that will be rolled off or cut in the mixing/mastering anyway.

If you want to hear more of the sub you can try to raise the crossover frequency, which will lift the cap off of what it cuts out of its signal.

If possible you could turn the subwoofer up via the head unit, or EQ more bass in the mix for sure.

The gain is going to do exactly what gain does.. basically increasing the ratio of input level : output level.

Qbass.. couldn't tell you.

From my experience it wasn't a good thing to hear guitar and most bass parts thru the subwoofer, when I turned it up it sounded real blah. Once I turned it back and refined it a bit all was well. Try tweeking the settings a bunch and I'm sure you'll find a happy medium.

OK, so WTF...a R3V member who actually knows something about frequencies as they relate to music?

How the hell could this happen?

This guy is actually eloquent, too! Decent sentence structure, adequate grammar...damn, I am impressed!

So, on to the tech. Standard bass guitar tuning is as follows:

String Note Frequency
1 (thinnest) G 97.999 Hz
2 D 73.416 Hz
3 A 55 Hz
4 (thickest) E 41.204 Hz

and of course, this is primary frequencies, not allowing for harmonics and sub-harmonics, but you get the idea. Your subwoofer should handle about 85% of the sound of a bass guitar.

You should have some kind of high pass filter to keep the stock location speakers (satellite speakers) from playing much below 125Hz or so, but it isn't like a rev limiter, it is a gradual drop off in frequencies (called "slope") and is generally expressed in "db" per "octave".

Likewise, your sub will have a "low pass" filter to prevent higher frequencies from drowning out the mids and highs and muddying them.

My general recommendations are somewhere around 125Hz for high pass if 12db/oct, and lower if your midrange drivers can handle it.

Low pass on the subwoofer should run about 80hz or so as most low pass filters are 12db/oct. If you want boom only, you can go lower and raise your gains...or, if you are looking to listen to actual music, you can raise them a bit and drop the gains to get a real balance.

Oh, that "Q bass" thing is a bass knob. Same as "BASS" on your deck, but a lower frequency.

Pitch that crap out the window.

Luke

[quickervicar]

Probably clockwise, but check your manual to be sure.

[iamsam]

Hmmm.... So which way is increasing the crossover frequency on the knob, clockwise or counterclockwise?

[genocide98]

To be honest harris uses a pretty mid/high heavy bass tone, for more punch and clarity over girth due to his playing style.

IMO, the subwoofer simply fills out the bottom end, and if you've got a crossover or something you're going to be cutting out most 'guitar' and 'bass' frequencies anyway.

Guitar in standard tune, the low E string is about 80hz iirc, and bass goes all the way down to 40 or something close, but most of that will be rolled off or cut in the mixing/mastering anyway.

If you want to hear more of the sub you can try to raise the crossover frequency, which will lift the cap off of what it cuts out of its signal.

If possible you could turn the subwoofer up via the head unit, or EQ more bass in the mix for sure.

The gain is going to do exactly what gain does.. basically increasing the ratio of input level : output level.

Qbass.. couldn't tell you.

From my experience it wasn't a good thing to hear guitar and most bass parts thru the subwoofer, when I turned it up it sounded real blah. Once I turned it back and refined it a bit all was well. Try tweeking the settings a bunch and I'm sure you'll find a happy medium.

[iamsam]

Update

Ok ladies,

here is the scoop: I installed the amp and sub, actually wired it up more like, i didn't tuck any of the wires away neatly or mount the amp yet since i am still in the knob-twisting stages, so here is what it looks like. Yes, it's ghetto, i am not terribly worried about my sound system, i got it all for free, i just want to make it sound the best with what I have.





So here is the question:

What should I do with the rear xover frequency knob, the rear gain knob, and the qbass knob? (see pic in first post of thread)

FYI: I play heavy metal like Metallica, Iron Maiden, Disturbed, etc, not rap, not country, and I occasionally will blast some good ol' Beethoven.

At the moment, it seems like the subwoofer cranks out Nicko's bass drum hits pretty well from Maiden, but doesn't crank out the notes of Steve Harris' bass guitar like i want it to, or the chugging guitar riffs.

[jeffw]

both amps luke box decent deck and your set. thats what i am rocking and anything luke does with a box is gold

[iamsam]

NO!

For fucks sake, find a local guy...fuck the big box stores!

ha ha ok ok!!!

you mean a local store (ie not a chain) or literally a local guy? because there are a few guys selling some wiring on CL...

[StereoInstaller1]

yup, that does make sense. Just that the front speaker location suck though...

i'll see if Best Buy or some other electronics store has some decent wiring...

NO!

For fucks sake, find a local guy...fuck the big box stores!

[StereoInstaller1]

Oh yeah...SoundQuest has HUGE profit margins, so whatever price you see will be about triple what cost is, or more. If is says $20 on the box, offer $8.50, and don't pay over $10.

I just noticed what the fucking installer reject from CarToys had to say....go return that POS box. Do NOT buy your cables from them either...butt pirates don't have to wear an eyepatch, y'know?

[iamsam]

yup, that does make sense. Just that the front speaker location suck though...

i'll see if Best Buy or some other electronics store has some decent wiring...

[StereoInstaller1]

WalMart has "BOSS" now?

What crap.

On the cheap end, see if you can find Sound Quest. I always had good luck on their crap, even if it is the same taiwan shit, with wire that is about 10% copper on an aluminum base.

Basically, anything that is physically strong is adequate, as long as it is decently shielded.

ohh yeah, the whole "rear fill" thing is this: we oddiophiles expect sound to come from in front of us, as you wouldn't have your back to the band, right? So the expectation is that 100% of the sound comes from the front.

In the real world though, people seem to like having a bit of sound behind them, so that little bit of sound from the back speakers is called "rear fill".

Make sense?

Luke

[iamsam]

With that woofer, just make a panel that fits between the vertical braces in the trunk, with an appropriate mounting hole for the woofer.

When you run your wires, run them through the factory grommet on the upper left side of the car. Try to get 3 sets of RCAs, 1 remote wire and 2 pair of speaker wires, unless the car started as premium sound.

Bridging half of that amp is really simple: use the left positive and right negative to the 2 terminals on that woofer. All you are doing is combining the 2 channels into one, we will leave the tech shit out for now.

Your amp has crossovers built into it for the sub: you wanna set that to "Low Pass" for the woofer, and adjust it to about 75Hz or so.

You wanna connect the front speakers to the other 2 channels of that amp (thus the 3 channel description) and set it to "High pass", at about 120Hz.

If your deck has "HPF" or "HIGH PASS" settings, turn it on and set it so about 120Hz or so.

Let us know when you get this up and running so we can help you set the gains and crossovers.

Luke

awesome. This i will do. i am pretty sure my deck doesn't have the high pass setting, it is a pretty basic deck, but i will look.

And i assume the idea of running the 3 sets of RCAs, 1 remote wire and 2 pair of speaker wire through the trunk wall is for the future in case i upgrade to be able to amp all four speakers, am i right?

again, thanks so much for your help.

Now I have one more question. Is there anything i should absolutely stay away from as far as amp wiring? for example, the Boss amp wiring kit at walmart got terrible reviews.