The cute 'lil guy project - Being different is good... or is it

[sector6]

interested...

[s_ribs]

Been lookin but haven't been able to find any near that cheap on ebay.

[einstein57]

I'm useing a kicker zx200.2 that i got for $20 at circuit city. You can still find them on ebay for $40-60 shipped. Its not the most powerful amp but works really well. I'm useing to push 1 12" CVR and it sounds really nice. Not boomy and it does not overpower the mids and highs. I also have a similar setup useing a 200w alpine and a 12" MTX 4500. It does not produce as much bass but has a richer fuller sound. IMHO its the perfect woofer for a surrond sound experience. As a matter of fact i was useing it in my surround sound setup in my MK4 GTI with the AVIC N1 and it blew peoples minds.

[s_ribs]

Also, eD updated their website today with additional power specs. I guess I wasn't the only person wondering! 50/200 rms, so 200 is indeed the top end rms not maximum power. Will still give them a call this morning to run a few questions by them.

Edit: Called and chatted with them. 200rms is indeed the top rms power, 375 is pushing it. BUT, I'm an idiot and forgot that these are dual voice-coil which changes ohm. Wiring in series makes 8-ohm not 4. So, this amp will definitely work for the time being.

[s_ribs]

Appreciate the expansion of thought on it. I'll do a little more looking around regarding extreme shapes - decent chance that most "shape" discussions still orient around a basic cube rather than odd extensions.

Completely agree on the "non-car" brands! I'm planning on picking up some Dayton Audio speakers for the rear fill. As long as you can find 4-ohm, it's funny how much cheaper they are.

[bmwman91]

I'm completely fine being wrong here, but... any real data to add?

If this were a ported box I might agree with you. Every bit of research I've done says volume is volume - shape is irrelevant. In theory waves will cancel themselves out in anything but the perfect box design. But even if that theory is true, it will never be realized within the dimensions of a cars interior (wavelengths at these frequencies are loooooong). The box for my Exile was 'L' shaped and worked just fine. Only complaint I had with it was not being sealed to the cabin.

I have wondered how more volume by one and not the other could be an influence though (variances with running 2 subs in one box, vs. 1 sub). If I find a reason that it could be then I will move one section of the upper 'T' down to the bottom.

With low frequencies, shape is less of an issue. However, even with subs designers typically tend to avoid using extreme aspect ratios even in rectangular boxes since it can lead to issues with reflections interfering with performance. The T box will probably perform similarly to those bass-tube subs, which are a little boomy IMO.

Realistically, the T will probably be OK in a car since there is a ton of other road & engine noise anyway. If it is all that fits then go with it. As you said, ideal enclosures are generally impractical in cars. There are a variety of "non-car" brand drivers out there that will give super deep bass in small enclosures, but people are hesitant to put them in their car for some reason.

[s_ribs]

The whole concept here is less space and less weight. I am excited to see how this project comes out. I might need to copyright that "T-box" concept, lol. And you better not get any sawdust in my paint!

That assumes you will be painting sometime in the near future........ :yawn:


















;)

[s_ribs]

Cool project, but you could get the sound you are looking for with a 10" Luke box and any 10" sub.

So... lowered, BBS's, S50 swap. What else does everyone do? :p

Fun project and trying something different! If I'm going the boring been done already route I'll stick with the Exile 12 and not waste my time with a little 'ole 10.

That T-box is not going to sound good. Internal reflections will be trememdous, and it will sound bad.

I'm completely fine being wrong here, but... any real data to add?

If this were a ported box I might agree with you. Every bit of research I've done says volume is volume - shape is irrelevant. In theory waves will cancel themselves out in anything but the perfect box design. But even if that theory is true, it will never be realized within the dimensions of a cars interior (wavelengths at these frequencies are loooooong). The box for my Exile was 'L' shaped and worked just fine. Only complaint I had with it was not being sealed to the cabin.

I have wondered how more volume by one and not the other could be an influence though (variances with running 2 subs in one box, vs. 1 sub). If I find a reason that it could be then I will move one section of the upper 'T' down to the bottom.

[bmwman91]

That T-box is not going to sound good. Internal reflections will be trememdous, and it will sound bad.

[Van Westervelt]

The whole concept here is less space and less weight. I am excited to see how this project comes out. I might need to copyright that "T-box" concept, lol. And you better not get any sawdust in my paint!

[rhett325i]

Cool project, but you could get the sound you are looking for with a 10" Luke box and any 10" sub.

[s_ribs]

Did some cardboard mockups of the box yesterday. Took a while to find dimensions and shape that allow everything I want to fit with the smallest depth possible. Quick paint drawing of what I'm thinking of-




At this point I'm rethinking things and planning on trying them in a sealed box. Can't screw it up and not sure I feel like the risk of screwing up the port details. Plus, sealed will bring out more really low end than ported. Winisd shows ported being much flatter but dropping off drastically on the low end.

Curious if that power will be far too much... we'll see! Power specs on eD's website are pretty vague so I'll have to call them.

[bmwman91]

That came off wrong: Exile wasn't boomy. In fact, it's one of the best 12" subs I've heard. It was just a lot, and more than I want in this car. While it can be turned down... why run a engine built for 1000 hp at only 500 hp? Over building can be good for durability, but only to an extent is it worth it. I'd rather sell that set up or save it for later use. My point was I a) boomy set-up's suck; b) am not looking for a SPL drag racing set-up.



Already did a few weeks ago. Not a clue how to use it properly though. Will likely spend more time figuring it out before I start cutting.



I'm new to a lot... but I'm not that much of a newbie. I plan on letting them slide around the trunk floor, of course. ;)

No commentary on the tuning specs you mentioned at the moment. My brain is a bit distracted with fun statistics formulas and time to study!

Appreciate the input.

Good times. Get to know WinISD. It will be your best friend.

[s_ribs]

The boominess might have been due to a setting on the amp, or just the cabin gain of the vehicle. It depends on a lot of factors.

That came off wrong: Exile wasn't boomy. In fact, it's one of the best 12" subs I've heard. It was just a lot, and more than I want in this car. While it can be turned down... why run a engine built for 1000 hp at only 500 hp? Over building can be good for durability, but only to an extent is it worth it. I'd rather sell that set up or save it for later use. My point was I a) boomy set-up's suck; b) am not looking for a SPL drag racing set-up.

Download WinISD Pro. It is free and very useful. You will want to pay attention mainly to the transfer function plot, the rear port air velocity plot (keep it below ~15m/s in the range of frequencies you plan to play) and cone excursion. You can adjust the rear port velocity by changing the port dimensions & tuning frequency. The other stuff is affected by box/port design parameters.

Already did a few weeks ago. Not a clue how to use it properly though. Will likely spend more time figuring it out before I start cutting.

Oh, and one last thing...avoid installing amplifiers on the enclosure. Electronic devices and vibration are not the best mix, usually.

I'm new to a lot... but I'm not that much of a newbie. I plan on letting them slide around the trunk floor, of course. ;)

No commentary on the tuning specs you mentioned at the moment. My brain is a bit distracted with fun statistics formulas and time to study!

Appreciate the input.

[bmwman91]

The boominess might have been due to a setting on the amp, or just the cabin gain of the vehicle. It depends on a lot of factors.

The enclosure should be made from 3/4" MDF, minimum. Bracing is not really optional. If you plan to run 100W peak to it, you shouldn't use less than a 2.5" ID pipe, and it will need to be ~13" long at that diameter. Flared/flanged ends help with the extra noises. Even with that, you will get a lot of extra noise below 40Hz, but usually music has very little content down there.

Vented boxes reduce the damping on the driver cone, so over-excursion is also a concern. You should really have a low-pass filter on there set at ~50Hz too. The group delay on ported boxes is terrible around the port frequency anyway, so you want to start cutting it off around there.

Download WinISD Pro. It is free and very useful. You will want to pay attention mainly to the transfer function plot, the rear port air velocity plot (keep it below ~15m/s in the range of frequencies you plan to play) and cone excursion. You can adjust the rear port velocity by changing the port dimensions & tuning frequency. The other stuff is affected by box/port design parameters.

Good luck, speaker building is fun!

Oh, and one last thing...avoid installing amplifiers on the enclosure. Electronic devices and vibration are not the best mix, usually.