E30 Audio without a Sub?

[Ian Bowers]

I was hoping for some input. I really want to upgrade the sound in my 318iS, but I don't want to use the space in my trunk for a sub. Some of the longest drives I take (to the track) are 6+ hours round trip, and my trunk is STUFFED with tires and tools.

Would it be possible to make an E30 sound decent without a sub? If I used the rear shelf for 6x9s, and the front doors for 6.5s (I'm aware there is some metal that needs to be cut), would it be acceptable?

I don't mind if I have to run an amp, but I just really don't want to lose my trunk space. :( I'm not looking for super hard hitting bass, I just want audible clarity, I'm tired of the tinny treble, undefined mid-range, and shit bass I currently have.

I've searched, and searched, and read, and read, but most people use a sub.

Any suggestions? Luke? Am I totally fucking stupid here?

Current deck is just a cheapy Pioneer Super Tuner II, looks like this one:


I'm looking to spend around $2-300 if possible, but if I have to spend more, I'll go work the street corner.

Thanks in advance,
Ian
:(

[Vtec?lol]

Find a head unit with built in crossovers thus eliminating your need for an external amp or crossover unit. but then that's all of you $300 lol. there's not much that can be done with $300. A decent pair of components that beat the BMW Premium Sound will runn you right at $250.

Swap in the bmw premium sound unless you have it and search for a Kenwood excelon.

[StereoInstaller1]

Post an exact model number of your deck: if it has dual pre-outs, the very first thing to do is get a 4 channel amp. As an example check out the MBQuart Onyx 4.60. There are literally hundreds of amp out there that are EXACTLY the same amp in a different heatsink...thank, China! Expect it to be in the $100 range, get your cables from Monoprice.com.

If it does not have dual pre-outs, get a Pioneer DEH6300, it has dual pre-outs, USB (so you can put 200+ CDs on a $5 thumb drive) and proper crossovers, which you wold not want to use in this situation. Yet. Expect it to be in the $125 range, but you will LOVE that deck. It also color matches the BMW lighting pretty well.

Start with the stock PS speakers both front and rear, they have the best bass ever in the stock size. If your car was initially a PS car, you can use the wiring at the stock amp, too. It will not play all that loud, but it will drown out your exhaust, sound OK, and you would be able to hear the fronts.

The issue with using 6X9s is this: generally, if you want to hear the front speakers you need to apply roughly 3X the power of the rears to the front...so if you were to add 6X9s in the rear, that would make that issue worse. You would then need to turn the 6X9s down so much that their added bass would not be noticed...or you would never hear the front speakers.

What you could do is add 1 6X9 in the middle of the rear deck, but crossed over as a sub. The reason you want a subwoofer is NOT "big stupid boom", but the ability to take the strain off of the front and rear speakers. Properly done, not only will the speaker produce no bass, but the amp running them won't try to make bass either, so clarity is massively improved.

If you ran that single 6X9 sub off of half of that 4 channel ("bridged") and the other 2 channels to the fronts, then used the (honest) 12 watts X 2 on the rear speakers, that could be a decent sound...BUT...

I will be VERY soon releasing the 8" LTW box, designed for guys just like you.

Yes, it will lose a tiny bit of trunk space, but it will also be VERY easily removable, kick the crap out of most music, and let you achieve a nice, natural tonal balance with some real depth.

Same "use a 4 channel" advice for it: a single 8" woofer, power the fronts and the sub off the amp, blah blah crossovers blah blah clean, clear, whatever...the point is that it will be an option shortly here.

Did I mention it is gonna be easily and quickly removable?

Oh yeah...kiss that budget goodbye if you plan on that deal, but you also should not have to double it.

Luke

[5Toes]

Is that 8" box going to use That Boston Ds1 8 subwoofer?

[Ian Bowers]

Post an exact model number of your deck: if it has dual pre-outs, the very first thing to do is get a 4 channel amp. As an example check out the MBQuart Onyx 4.60. There are literally hundreds of amp out there that are EXACTLY the same amp in a different heatsink...thank, China! Expect it to be in the $100 range, get your cables from Monoprice.com.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/CD-Receivers/DEH-2000MP

DEH 2000MP, Super Tuner IIID. Picture of it in the car:

If it does not have dual pre-outs, get a Pioneer DEH6300, it has dual pre-outs, USB (so you can put 200+ CDs on a $5 thumb drive) and proper crossovers, which you wold not want to use in this situation. Yet. Expect it to be in the $125 range, but you will LOVE that deck. It also color matches the BMW lighting pretty well.

Start with the stock PS speakers both front and rear, they have the best bass ever in the stock size. If your car was initially a PS car, you can use the wiring at the stock amp, too. It will not play all that loud, but it will drown out your exhaust, sound OK, and you would be able to hear the fronts.

My car was not an initially PS car, but I have some PS rear speakers here. I did notice how silly large the magnets were for a 5.25" speaker.

The issue with using 6X9s is this: generally, if you want to hear the front speakers you need to apply roughly 3X the power of the rears to the front...so if you were to add 6X9s in the rear, that would make that issue worse. You would then need to turn the 6X9s down so much that their added bass would not be noticed...or you would never hear the front speakers.

Does that hold true with the 6.5s in the door instead of in the kick panels? I was hoping to counter the rear imbalance by moving the feet speakers up.

What you could do is add 1 6X9 in the middle of the rear deck, but crossed over as a sub. The reason you want a subwoofer is NOT "big stupid boom", but the ability to take the strain off of the front and rear speakers. Properly done, not only will the speaker produce no bass, but the amp running them won't try to make bass either, so clarity is massively improved.

If you ran that single 6X9 sub off of half of that 4 channel ("bridged") and the other 2 channels to the fronts, then used the (honest) 12 watts X 2 on the rear speakers, that could be a decent sound...BUT...

Okay. I've heard you say that a lot, now I understand. Is there anything I could do with the rear-seat area for a sub instead?

I will be VERY soon releasing the 8" LTW box, designed for guys just like you.

Yes, it will lose a tiny bit of trunk space, but it will also be VERY easily removable, kick the crap out of most music, and let you achieve a nice, natural tonal balance with some real depth.

Same "use a 4 channel" advice for it: a single 8" woofer, power the fronts and the sub off the amp, blah blah crossovers blah blah clean, clear, whatever...the point is that it will be an option shortly here.

Did I mention it is gonna be easily and quickly removable?

I would absolutely love to support you, and purchase the box -- but I can fit 9 tires/wheels inside the trunk of the car, and that's an immense squeeze to do so. If I lost any trunk space at all, I'd end up losing out on 2 tires, or maybe more. :(

Oh yeah...kiss that budget goodbye if you plan on that deal, but you also should not have to double it.

Luke

I'm fine with having to spend more to do it right, I've learned that cheaping out on something always leaves me unsatisfied and I spend more in the end.


For real, I appreciate the insight, knowledge, and help.

You're the man!
Regards,
Ian

[Danny]

Ian, if you wanna do 6x9s I have some Pioneers you can have for a couple bucks.

[StereoInstaller1]

Thanks, Ian! We will be figuring out good shit for you, but plan on the DEH6300 no matter what....while a cheap POS basically, it is ideal for your application.

If you are an iPhoner, it has "Pandora Link", which will let you control the Pandora app from your deck, rather than your iPhone (like you would with aux-in).

Andrew, that woofer (well, OK this woofer: http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CDYQ8gIwAw ) is one of the few out there I am actually aiming to make sound good in this box.

[Ian Bowers]

Thanks, Ian! We will be figuring out good shit for you, but plan on the DEH6300 no matter what....while a cheap POS basically, it is ideal for your application.

I'll pick one up.

If you are an iPhoner, it has "Pandora Link", which will let you control the Pandora app from your deck, rather than your iPhone (like you would with aux-in).

I'm actually an Android-er, but I do use the everliving shit out of Pandora, so that will help a LOT, as when the phone is on its dock, I'm using it as a GPS speedo.

[Stephen]

put a tinykicker 6.5 sub in your headrest

[5Toes]

Thanks, Ian! We will be figuring out good shit for you, but plan on the DEH6300 no matter what....while a cheap POS basically, it is ideal for your application.

If you are an iPhoner, it has "Pandora Link", which will let you control the Pandora app from your deck, rather than your iPhone (like you would with aux-in).

Andrew, that woofer (well, OK this woofer: http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CDYQ8gIwAw ) is one of the few out there I am actually aiming to make sound good in this box.

Hmm, I wanna hear that box eventually then. What are the specs on it so far? That woofer is crazy nice for $51. Looks nice too.

And Ian, I love that Pioneer. Going in my car, VERY shortly

[bmwguy325is]

The issue with using 6X9s is this: generally, if you want to hear the front speakers you need to apply roughly 3X the power of the rears to the front...so if you were to add 6X9s in the rear, that would make that issue worse. You would then need to turn the 6X9s down so much that their added bass would not be noticed...or you would never hear the front speakers.

So would a deck with time aligment help this problem? I dont preffess to be a stereo expert but I do have a decent one in my E30.
I say build a fiberglass box for the spare tire hole. Then build a tough grill for the top so you can safely pack stuff in the trunk. Not sure if that would work but thats an idea.

[Ian Bowers]

And Ian, I love that Pioneer. Going in my car, VERY shortly

It looks neat, and the USB port should be a handy feature. Bummed that it isn't Android-Pandora compatible, but oh well.

put a tinykicker 6.5 sub in your headrest

No headrests. Driver seat is a Recaro SPG, passenger is a Sparco R505

Ian, if you wanna do 6x9s I have some Pioneers you can have for a couple bucks.

If I go that route, I'll make sure to hit you up. Thanks Danny.

Thanks again for the input, guys.

[blueapplesoda]

alpine 6x9 coaxes kicked ass mounted in the rear deck. It felt almost as if I had my 10" sub in the trunk. Almost. I did have an amp though, so that made a huge difference.

[StereoInstaller1]

So would a deck with time aligment help this problem? I dont preffess to be a stereo expert but I do have a decent one in my E30.
I say build a fiberglass box for the spare tire hole. Then build a tough grill for the top so you can safely pack stuff in the trunk. Not sure if that would work but thats an idea.

Time alignment has nothing to do with acoustic balance, so that won't help...and the spare tire box does not achieve what I consider to be the single most important part of having good bass in a car: getting 100% of the bass into the cabin.

[Cabriolet]

alpine 6x9 coaxes kicked ass mounted in the rear deck. It felt almost as if I had my 10" sub in the trunk. Almost. I did have an amp though, so that made a huge difference.

this is very true. not nearly as good as a luck box but really pretty good.