1986 325ES Premium Sound Aftermarket Deck Install

[mathetas]

Gents,

The Tape Deck in my ride (premium sound, stock tweeters and fader) sounds great on high wattage FM stations UNLESS I touch the volume knob, which makes the speakers crackle until I stop touching it (-1). Also, I can't easily integrate a hands free option or iPhone tunes (-1). However, the Tape Deck does look nice (+1)... After crunching the numbers, I think it is time for an aftermarket deck to even up the score.

Enter the Pioneer DEH-6400BT: customizable colors (+1); bluetooth AD2P streaming (+1); hands free phone integration (+1).

I want to use the existing speaker wire in my car and bypass the amplifier. After reading A LOT of posts here, there and everywhere, it seems there is a clear and straightforward approach for refreshing the premium sound system in 88+ cars, but unfortunately, not for the early models--'84-87. I don't want to turn this into a week-long, gaping hole in my dash that will inevitably absorb countless hours of my life, darken my soul and ultimately result in a violent rage of man against machine...

Here is what I think I know, but please correct me where needed:
1) I can ONLY bypass the amp and use existing speaker wires for the Rear Speakers.
2) I must run NEW speaker wire to the kick panel speakers.

If there was a simple way to do all of this at the console and in the trunk (like the 88+ method I have read about), I would be very happy and leave everything else stock after wiring. However, if installing my new deck will require an intimate inspection and re-wiring of the 5.25" speakers in the kick panel, I would almost rather purchase two new sets of component speakers and repalce the fronts and rears along with the deck.

Help? Advice? My lateral limits are replacing the factory deck or replacing the factory deck AND premium speakers--no amps, no subs. Thanks in advance. I have every intention on making this thread a solid early model DIY with properly posted pictures.

DR

[German Audio Specialties]

My advice is stop with the "lateral limits" and apply logic: get a small, cheap $100 4 channel amp. The stock system used an amp, simply replace it. You don't need the power, you are just looking to simplify the install, right?

If you find one that has a fuse of 15A or less (blue fuse) you can even re-use the stock power wire, it is adequate.

All you will need to run is 2 pair of RCAs, everything else is done. All 4 pairs of speaker wires are already there. Remote, even.

Or, you can spend that whole 20 minutes running new wires to the front speakers for "worse but adequate" sound. All you will need to do is cut the pair of wires BEFORE the tweeter connection and extend them to the head unit. "Re-purpose" the rears and all is golden.

Note that the amp will gain you a tiny bit of volume and maybe a tiny TINY improvement in SQ, but all it is really doing is making the install easier.

Changing the speakers would be flat stupid: NOTHING ever sold (I mean ever) does better IN THIS SIZE without a sub. These are the best overall "full range" sound (for this size) so you would be well served to get that deck (good call, my #1 recommendation BTW) and whatever small, cheap 4 channel amp you can find.

Of course, this could all be improved at some point down the road too, should you get the urge to get great sound instead of just "OK". No sense getting anything that might need replaced while upgrading, right?

GL and let me know if you get stuck.

Luke

[mathetas]

If you find one that has a fuse of 15A or less (blue fuse) you can even re-use the stock power wire, it is adequate.

All you will need to run is 2 pair of RCAs, everything else is done. All 4 pairs of speaker wires are already there. Remote, even.

Thanks, Luke. Sold.

Now for the amp selection. What do I get for the <$100 option that is going to make this install easier? Sorry I am so slow, here, but you are basically saying that I need to wire the stereo to eliminate the fader and then complete a one for one swap of the amp--New in lieu of OEM? Does the amp have to go in the same location as the OEM amp (need for running RCA's all the way to the trunk)?

DR

[mathetas]

This is over budget $50, but what are your thoughts on this:
Alpine KTP-445U "Power Pack"?

Seems as if this unit would allow me to complete the procedure the same as bypassing the amp for the rears and running new wires to the fronts... Except, all wires would be passing through the autosensing speaker inputs of the amp--no RCA's needed. This technique would allow the amp to be installed up front and connect to the blue wire, right?

[German Audio Specialties]

This is over budget $50, but what are your thoughts on this:
Alpine KTP-445U "Power Pack"?

Seems as if this unit would allow me to complete the procedure the same as bypassing the amp for the rears and running new wires to the fronts... Except, all wires would be passing through the autosensing speaker inputs of the amp--no RCA's needed. This technique would allow the amp to be installed up front and connect to the blue wire, right?

Well, yeah...you could do that easily, except the logical place is in the trunk, so no new wiring at all would be necessary. Use the 4 speaker positives (amp inputs) that are in the fader wiring as your inputs.

However, here is the issue: the sound is much worse when you amplify a speaker level signal. It is a significant loss in clarity and overall sound quality. I HIGHLY recommend you do the RCAs. It isn't that hard.

Luke

[mathetas]

Sounds like a plan...

Gear Needed:
1) RCA Cables x 2 (4m)
2) Alpine KTP-445U (decent reviews, small, 15 amp)

Gameplan:
1) Wire Red, Yellow, Black and Blue wires appropriately from harness of Pioneer DEH-6400BT; tape off 8 speaker wires from deck and the remaining factory speaker inputs from OEM Radio.
2) Run RCA's from deck to trunk (advice on route?).
3) Connect power wire (white?) from bundle to OEM amp to Alpine power wire.
4) Ignore the input wires going into the OEM amp, remove OEM amp from trunk, and ensure all output wires from OEM amp are connected to the correct output speaker channels from Alpine. Secure Alpine amp in trunk.
5) Sight in 50-75 yard clear field of fire; throw OEM amp with maximum effort in a safe direction.
6) Watch OEM amp bounce and tumble in the distance.
7) Turn on Pioneer.
8) Enjoy.

Will the above required gear and steps 1-4 get this done?

Thanks.

DR

[German Audio Specialties]

Yes, exactly that. Get 5M RCAs, too, instead of 4M.

[StereoInstaller1]

Sounds like a plan...

Gear Needed:
1) RCA Cables x 2 (4m)
2) Alpine KTP-445U (decent reviews, small, 15 amp)

Gameplan:
1) Wire Red, Yellow, Black and Blue wires appropriately from harness of Pioneer DEH-6400BT; tape off 8 speaker wires from deck and the remaining factory speaker inputs from OEM Radio.
2) Run RCA's from deck to trunk (advice on route?).
3) Connect power wire (Red/black= 12V, brown is ground and white for remote) from bundle to OEM amp to Alpine power wire.
4) Ignore the input wires going into the OEM amp, remove OEM amp from trunk, and ensure all output wires from OEM amp are connected to the correct output speaker channels from Alpine. Secure Alpine amp in trunk.
5) Sight in 50-75 yard clear field of fire; throw OEM amp with maximum effort in a safe direction.
6) Watch OEM amp bounce and tumble in the distance.
7) Turn on Pioneer.
8) Enjoy.

Will the above required gear and steps 1-4 get this done?

Thanks.

DR

You might wanna find something more appropriate to do with the amp. Tannerite, Napalm, large caliber are words that come to mind.

[mathetas]

Good call. (+1) for Tannerite, M16A2 and my amp... Click, crack, BOOOOOOOM!

[StereoInstaller1]

I actually know Dan Tanner and his stupid GF. Oddly enough, I had no idea he invented Tannerite...but he and Angie put on one hell of a fireworks show!

[mathetas]

I actually know Dan Tanner and his stupid GF. Oddly enough, I had no idea he invented Tannerite...but he and Angie put on one hell of a fireworks show!

Yeah, it's hard not to have some Tannerite videos on the highlight reel. Blow it up for me the next time you see him...

[mathetas]

Need some assistance. Pulled the Amp out of the trunk and have the following picture to discern... I have a pretty good feeling about the four positive "input" speaker wires and the labeled, speaker output wires, but what about the remaining wires that have circles around them? Luke, you may be the only one that can answer this. Plus, it gives us a pretty good picture I can relabel for this DIY for early models.

White Wire?
Red/Black Wire (thick)?
Brown/Black Wire?
Brown Wire (thick)?

I am inclined to think the brown wire is the ground, red/black is power, white is remote amp and brown/black is the accessory power???

One more thing, is it better to run RCA's down the middle of the car or with the speaker harness down the driver's side of the car? I have pretty good quality RCA's.

Help much appreciated. Install will be complete this weekend.

Thanks.

FACTORY AMP HARNESS



NEW (REPLACEMENT) AMP HARNESS

[StereoInstaller1]

OK, you are absolutely correct on everything here, except that normally, amplifiers do not have harnesses, just bare terminals...your Alpine thingie is different.

The only wire you had a question on was the brown/black. That is signal ground from the fader to the amp, so it is unused.

Think about this when deciphering this: "brown is ground the world around, except America" meaning on almost all non-domestic, most brown wires are ground.

Luke

[mathetas]

Luke, I just came to the same conclusion as I was pouring through the electrical troubleshooting guide for the e30 (early model), which has a MISTAKE!!! In fact, I think it was the genesis of your typo on the sticky for wiring. It actually labels Left Rear Pos "BK/BR" and Right Rear Neg as "BK/BR" as well. Actually, at least on my harness, pin #7, Left Rear Pos, is in fact BK/RD and paired with BL/VT. You were right, this crap is almost all case by case with only a few ground rules... Thanks for confirming.

[mathetas]

Ok, so as for the DIY, at least on the Early Model Premium system with tweeters and in-dash fader on my 86 325ES, consider the following...

Remove the Amp from the hinge area of the trunk on the driver side with a phillips head screw driver. Expect that the lamp check relay harness (2 plugs) will be bracketed below your factory amp, which is "sort of" hiding. I just did the cave man tactic of unscrewing everything that looked like it needed removing, and I also unscrewed the power antenna from its bracket to give myself more room to get the amp out. Once the amp was out, I examined the wires that precipitated the above discussion. Be careful not to mess around with your lamp relay check plugs as it could have some individuals inclined to think it is a necessary component of the amp as they are married with brackets--they are actually divorced. Leave all that intact, and simply focus on the amp.

With the amp removed, cut the wires from it. Looking at your standard "new" or "replacement" amplifier harness, the key for connection should be accurate below--thank you, Luke.

NEW AMP------------OLD AMP WIRING
YELLOW--------------RED/BLACK (THICK WIRE) (POWER)
BLACK----------------BROWN (THICK WIRE) (GROUND)
BLUE/WHITE---------WHITE (REMOTE TURN-ON)
VIOLET---------------BLACK/WHITE (RIGHT REAR POS)
VIOLET/BLACK-------BLACK/BROWN (RIGHT REAR NEG)
GREEN---------------BLACK/RED (LEFT REAR POS)
GREEN/BLACK-------BLACK/VIOLET (LEFT REAR NEG)
GREY-----------------GREY/WHITE (RIGHT FRONT POS)
GREY/BLACK---------GREY/BROWN (RIGHT FRONT NEG)
WHITE----------------GREY/RED (LEFT FRONT POS)
WHITE/BLACK--------GREY/VIOLET (LEFT FRONT NEG)

Finishing up the work in the trunk. Pictures to follow...