HELIX Blue or Espirit components? Any input on these?

[THEhomelessONE]

Made by Audiotec Fischer, which makes Brax I guess? Couldn't find much online. Others I'm looking at are Morel Tempo's, but they seem to have durability issues. Audio dealer near me dropped Focal for Helix. I'm open to other brands as well. Definitely want warmer tones, no bright tweeters. Comps up front and coax rear in a vert along with an Alpine F450, 4x70rm 4ohm. Really want to throw in a Jensen JHD3630BT in there too.

[THEhomelessONE]

BUMP, leaning more towards the E52C since I'll be running an amp, any advice on what kind of prices to look for? I think the audio dealer near me is charging msrp. Folks say the Blue line sounds nice off stock HU amp.

[StereoInstaller1]

Well, OK, I have seen your post and have been kind of holding off answering.

I have seen and held this exact product in my hands, but I have not installed nor heard it.

From what I can tell, it is the exact same Chinese crap as anything else. Get Powerbass, they are 1/4 the price and look like the same product with different trimmings, like all the other stuff out there...cosmetic changes only.

Those components are inferior to stock BMW Premium Sound, even decent condition 25 year old speakers. My first recommendation is use a decent aftermarket amp ($100 is fine) to run your stock PS speakers. If you are one of those people who absolutely must replace speakers, go right ahead and do these. You will find even less bass, even shriller midrange and brighter tweeters. This is because these speakers (and all others) are intended to be installed in the doors of a chevy or Honda, not in the tiny cavity provided by BMW.

When you put any speaker (meaning raw driver) into its "enclosure" you automatically raise that speakers resonant frequency (Fs). The large door panels of a Chevy truck or even a Passat are an enormous space and do not appreciably raise that Fs, but that tiny cavity behind your kickpanel will. What that translates to is that those speakers would sound just fine in the doors of a CRX, but will absolutely suck in your 'vert.

This is why I have said for years: there is no better speaker for an E30 than stock if you don't have a subwoofer.

The fun part of that? A pair of 12's in your trunk won't do much at all, even with 1200 watts. Once you drop the top, that bass is just an annoyance to other drivers. Getting the subwoofers energy into the cabin is just about impossible on the E30 Vert.

I wish I had better news, but here is the simple fact: spending more money does not equate to better sound in a BMW. Getting good sound in a BMW requires products that were engineered specifically for your BMW.

That dinky little thing you posted if trunk mounted won't be audible with the top down at all...but if you have plans to try it inside the cabin, give it a shot, but otherwise, you are kinda stuck. 'Verts are tough, among the hardest cars ever made to get decent sound in.

We build a subwoofer kit for your car. It isn't terribly expensive, you can do the kit from us, a pair of woofers and a 5 channel amp with all the stuff you need to install it for around $500. The install though....its a pain in the ass...but it the only solution I have ever heard or seen that actually makes sense.

Well, actually, buying a car that has a ROOF makes more sense if you like good audio, but I am just going to assume you would prefer to keep this car roofless. Seriously though, that car is a bitch to get decent audio in. Let me know if I can help.

Luke

[THEhomelessONE]

Thanks for letting me know! Was about to get them installed today. I think they are assembled in China but figured Audiotec Fischer/Brax had good quality control and wouldn't sell crap. The PO got rid of original speakers and put crap sony speakers in along with a trash panasonic HU. The 4 channel alpine I have will only be used for the cabin speakers, either 4x70rms at 4ohm or just hooked to the front, bridged 2x200rms at 4ohm. I am actually planning on buying one of your vert boxes, hopefully around spring when I have some free time, the install looks like a pain. Plan on having a sale on them anytime soon? What aftermarket components would you recommend I look into? I know you said the PS but I don't want to throw in 25 year old speakers. Thanks for your help!

[agent]

I think if you had an opportunity to hear how good the OE PS speakers sound in a car with some power behind them - plus a Lukebox of course - you'd change your mind.

[THEhomelessONE]

Would they handle 70rms? Do all verts come with PS? Anyone make new versions of the PS? I will not throw in worn out and abused two decade old speakers. Bahh this is a bit of a disappointment.

[StereoInstaller1]

Would they handle 70rms? Do all verts come with PS? Anyone make new versions of the PS? I will not throw in worn out and abused two decade old speakers. Bahh this is a bit of a disappointment.

Figure it like this: when properly amplified with a subwoofer, you would expect to achieve a natural balance of mids and higs vs bass.

To achieve this balance, you must eliminate the lower frequencies, or there is no way that any 5.25" speaker will keep up with a subwoofer, there will be just too much IM distortion to be able to stand the sound.

Feel free to google IMD or "Intermodulation Distortion" for further detail.

What this means is that in all properly designed systems, crossovers are used to increase the power handling. As a general rule, the information below 100Hz or so is 3/4 of the energy required to reproduce music. 75% of the actual energy is bass, keep that in mind.

When you eliminate the lower frequencies through use of a "High Pass Filter" before the amplification stage ("Active" or "Electronic" crossovers) amplifiers respond by allowing that same amplifier to improve "headroom" by typically around 400%. Its like magic, but not really, since you just took 75% of the stress off of that amplifier.

What people don't seem to realize is that power handling is determined more by the crossover filters (tuning) than by the speaker itself, and by the enclosure or environment it is playing in than anything else. Whatever crap they print on a label really is meaningless.

Let me explain: if a speaker is rated at 10W RMS power handling, that is a "full range" rating. That poor little speaker is flapping and farting, mounted to a 12" square baffle. Send a sine wave to the poor little thing and watch it dance. That is how power handling ratings are determined, if not just by "what the fuck, it will handle 200 watts, sure" since it is all pure bullshit anyway.

That isn't exactly real world testing though. 10 watts in a torture chamber vs 70 watts in your car isn't a fair fight. Its way easier for that speaker to handle 70 watts in your car, especially if properly tuned...no worries.

Properly installed and tuned, that speaker would only be fed signals that were amplified from 120Hz or so and up, so that same speaker is magically able to handle 400X the power, minimum. Take into account the reduction in distortions and random DC square waves being filtered out before the speaker even sees them and you should understand easily that 70 watts is no big deal at all, even for a speaker rated "20 watts".

Does that clarify things at least a little?

Luke

[THEhomelessONE]

Thanks, where can I find new PS replacements? Or can you recommend any aftermarket ones? I've read nothing but good reviews about the esprit line and helix. I'm going to order them this evening since I doubt anyone makes new PS replacements.

[StereoInstaller1]

LOL...I give up.

Have fun.

[THEhomelessONE]

... anyone else care to help me out? If the original speakers were the best option, where can I find a new set?

[StereoInstaller1]

... anyone else care to help me out? If the original speakers were the best option, where can I find a new set?

As far as I know, Blunt can get them still...or you could wait until we release our E30 speaker system later next month...but seriously, just buy nice condition off of ebay, dozens of others have with great success.

here is a start: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BMW-...item2ece1d44b1

[THEhomelessONE]

As far as I know, Blunt can get them still...or you could wait until we release our E30 speaker system later next month...but seriously, just buy nice condition off of ebay, dozens of others have with great success.

here is a start: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BMW-...item2ece1d44b1

Thanks for the help Luke I know you're a busy guy, I'll just wait then and buy the Vert box at the same time. Going to send the car in for paint this week hopefully :) that'll take about a month and give me a chance to save up.