Setup I've gathered up.....how will it sound?

[audiquattrot]

So I've been having issues w/ my stock tape deck, and was trying to keep things OEM by leaving it in there, but lately have gotten the itch to overhaul the sound system since I drive the E30 90% of the time.

Curious to see if you guys think this setup will pair ok with the stock premium sound speakers. I've been out of the car audio game since the late 90s/early 2000s....but have had setups including Diamond Audio, Eclipse, MB Quartz & Alpine V12 amps in my past cars.

I was on a strict budget over this, and all in for parts below, this is running me $560 out the door.

This is the setup I'm going with for the E30 (all parts have been ordered):

Pioneer DEH-80PRS headunit
8" LTW Lukebox
Infinity Reference 860w 8" sub (Single Voice Coil)
Alpine V12 MRV-100M mono amp (I had an exact one like this back in 98 to drive a 12" Infinity sub)

I plan to bypass the stock amp, and run the 4 speakers & tweeters off the headunit using the stock wiring, and run RCA's to the headunit to drive the sub.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[audiquattrot]

Pics I dug up off the internet of everything.

[Cabriolet]

I had the luke box with dual 8's in my power top vert. the speakers used were the kickers, it was very lack luster in comparison to my friend's twin vert with the same box and polk subs in his car. now i have the luke box 10" with JL 3w3. it's amazing. if you only listen to classic rock and pop it will be fine. but if you like electronica or rap you need the 10 or 12.

[audiquattrot]

I had the luke box with dual 8's in my power top vert. the speakers used were the kickers, it was very lack luster in comparison to my friend's twin vert with the same box and polk subs in his car. now i have the luke box 10" with JL 3w3. it's amazing. if you only listen to classic rock and pop it will be fine. but if you like electronica or rap you need the 10 or 12.

I do listen to electronic/house & rap, but I think anything over stock will be an improvement. Just wanted a bit more bass, similar to what 6x9's prob would sound like if we could fit them.

[Cabriolet]

i have a friend running 6x9s in the back of his e30 and it sounds really good. he built them up off the deck with routed wood mounts.

one of the best things i did to my car was dynamating the floor and doors

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43859025@N08/8357484274/

[Silver Wagon]

if you only listen to classic rock and pop it will be fine. but if you like electronica or rap you need the 10 or 12.

not true. bass is all about moving air. the more cone area or extrusion you have the more bass you will get. as in 2 8" woofers will move more air than one 12" all things being equal. the two 8's have a total cone surface area of 16" versus 12". the main difference will be the frequency the woofers will be able to play down to. the 12" woofer will be able to play lower frequencies than the two 8" woofers, again all things being equal.

it really comes down to restrictions. money and space.

[Cabriolet]

as in 2 8" woofers will move more air than one 12" all things being equal.

plz take a math class.
2 8" 100.5sq/in
1 12" 113sq/in
1 16" 201sq/in

the larger cones will also have a much better lower fq response.

one 8" will be better than nothing. but if you like your music, it wont cut it.

[StereoInstaller1]

plz take a math class.
2 8" 100.5sq/in
1 12" 113sq/in
1 16" 201sq/in

the larger cones will also have a much better lower fq response.

Thank you for catching that math issue, Eric. Just so everyone knows, the formula for the surface area of a circle is "pi" times the radius of the circle, squared.

So 3.14 x 4X4 = 50.24 sq inches for an 8" circle...a typical 8" woofer is more like 41 square inches of radiating surface, though, they aren't a perfect 8" radiating surface.

Now, lets talk about a few things, because y'all are a bit confused.

First thing, toss any stupid idea that size has anything to do with either high or low frequency reproduction. That is simply not true. It may seem like bigger woofers play lower, but that is beyond simplification, getting into the bullshit salesmen spew at car stereo shops. At best, it is half truth, and thus complete bullshit.

Plain and simple: it isn't true. Bigger does NOT mean lower. Get some math, people!

Here is the reality: there are hundreds of transducers that play well up to about 30Khz and easily down to 20Hz and they fit in your goddamn ear.

Any one of you care to explain how we get 20Hz out of a 1" driver in headphones? If we can get 20Hz out of a 1" driver, why do we need 15" woofers? If we can get 20Khz out of a single driver that also plays to 20Hz, why do we need crossovers?

Its all about intensity. a 1" transducer will most certainly move air at 20Hz, they have been able to do so since the 1960s...but it is only audible because the tiny space between the transducer and your eardrum is so small. That same 1" transducer would have to move several inches to create audible 20Hz info in a 12'X12' room, and a couple of feet of movement if installed in a stadium.

No matter how you slice it, size has virtually nothing to do with frequency response.

Is this idea kicking in? It isn't about how low or how high of frequency, its about how efficient that data is being transmitted to your ear. What you hear, or what you think you hear, is simply a matter of intensity, or how much pressure is in the room. If a headphone transducer will play down to 20Hz in your ear canal, but you can't hear it in a room, that doens't mean it isn't there, it just means you have changed that transducers intended environment. Basically, you fucked with the speaker by changing its environment, why would you expect it to perform the same?

"Bigger" woofers do NOT mean lower bass, that is pure stupidity. A bigger sail flapping in the breeze is going to be more efficient, that is the ONLY guaranteed difference. The rest, being frequency response, impedance, speed, Vas, Fs, MMS, XMAX, all that TS stuff has NOTHING to do with being a bigger woofer or not, it has to do with enclosure tuning, design and manufacturing.

So, what this means, especially when comparing the effect of different sized subwoofer in a given car is this: different sized woofers have just about nothing to do with frequency response, the only thing that changes is efficiency and intensity.

What this means in actual use is this: the 8" E30 box, with a typical 8" car subwoofer will give you a solid 120db at 35Hz while the 10" will give you a solid 125db at 25hz. The woofer still plays lower, it just loses intensity compared to its higher frequency output.

Thats about it. All you get is higher efficiency using a larger woofer, the rest is all imagination.

As far as "faster" bass, thats dumb as fuck too. If the low pass filter you are using is the typical 80Hz or so at 12db/oct, that means the fastest that cone will need to move is 120 cycles per second, easily within reach of even the crappiest transducers.

The "speed" you think you hear is the midbass drivers and they capability of blending with the woofer. It is purely a phase relationship and has ZERO to do with being "faster", that is just psychoacoustics...basically the ability of your mind to fool itself. Trust me, that is easily the most important part of all of this.

Now lets get to the important part:

one 8" will be better than nothing. but if you like your music, it wont cut it

This is nonsense. Ask anyone who has actually heard one of my wonderful little 8" boxes, they will agree. Yes, the 10s and 12's hit harder, they are more efficient...but this little 8", especially with that Infinity woofer, will absolutely get down, play plenty loud and sound great. It won't keep up with the 10, not even close...but it still makes for some damn fun bottom end.

My only bitch with this dudes system is that gutless piece of shit amp. 100 watts on a 4 ohm load? What kind of bullshit is that! Any decent $100 walmart 4 channel will kick its ass, but what would you expect from 1990's electronics...it isn't like electronics have improved or anything, right?

Lose that amp and at a minimum replace it with a decent 4 channel. 35W RMS X4 is adequate. Use half for the front speakers and the other half for bass, it would sound far superior to the current plan. Run the rears on deck power, or better yet use 5 or 6 channels of power so the deck need not run anything.

Here is my "Old School Amplifier Rant":

I don't understand why people think that even though everything from CAT scan machines to cell phones and microwaves have improved in 20 years, yet somehow amplifiers are worse...what the fuck, those old amps are worthless garbage now, even the best of the best of the old school is easily beaten in any meaningful spec by todays el-cheap-o Taiwan pile of crap.

Old amps suck ass, period. I have piles of them, I still love them...but they are crap. It's called progress, and the stuff you can buy today is better than ever, more power for less money than ever.

/rant

As far as the 8" setup goes, I will make sure you hear one at the Picnic, Eric. I promise it will blow your mind. Hell, I had a single 8" running on half a 4 channel Alpine amp that made 140W RMS on bass. It wasn't enough for you or me, but it was damn impressive, especially considering the whole system weighs under 30Lbs total.

I had 3 dozen drunk bitches dancing at 3AM in the parking lot of a bar with my weenie-ass 8" system, isn't the "fun" what this stuff is all about?

[Silver Wagon]

Thank you for catching that math issue, Eric. Just so everyone knows, the formula for the surface area of a circle is "pi" times the radius of the circle, squared.

So 3.14 x 4X4 = 50.24 sq inches for an 8" circle...a typical 8" woofer is more like 41 square inches of radiating surface, though, they aren't a perfect 8" radiating surface.

yup, my mistake. haven't even thought about this kind of math in 15 years or so.

Thank you for catching that math issue, Eric. Just so everyone knows, the formula for the surface area of a circle is "pi" times the radius of the circle, squared.

So 3.14 x 4X4 = 50.24 sq inches for an 8" circle...a typical 8" woofer is more like 41 square inches of radiating surface, though, they aren't a perfect 8" radiating surface.

Now, lets talk about a few things, because y'all are a bit confused.

First thing, toss any stupid idea that size has anything to do with either high or low frequency reproduction. That is simply not true. It may seem like bigger woofers play lower, but that is beyond simplification, getting into the bullshit salesmen spew at car stereo shops. At best, it is half truth, and thus complete bullshit.

Plain and simple: it isn't true. Bigger does NOT mean lower. Get some math, people!

Here is the reality: there are hundreds of transducers that play well up to about 30Khz and easily down to 20Hz and they fit in your goddamn ear.

Any one of you care to explain how we get 20Hz out of a 1" driver in headphones? If we can get 20Hz out of a 1" driver, why do we need 15" woofers? If we can get 20Khz out of a single driver that also plays to 20Hz, why do we need crossovers?

Its all about intensity. a 1" transducer will most certainly move air at 20Hz, they have been able to do so since the 1960s...but it is only audible because the tiny space between the transducer and your eardrum is so small. That same 1" transducer would have to move several inches to create audible 20Hz info in a 12'X12' room, and a couple of feet of movement if installed in a stadium.

No matter how you slice it, size has virtually nothing to do with frequency response.

Is this idea kicking in? It isn't about how low or how high of frequency, its about how efficient that data is being transmitted to your ear. What you hear, or what you think you hear, is simply a matter of intensity, or how much pressure is in the room. If a headphone transducer will play down to 20Hz in your ear canal, but you can't hear it in a room, that doens't mean it isn't there, it just means you have changed that transducers intended environment. Basically, you fucked with the speaker by changing its environment, why would you expect it to perform the same?

"Bigger" woofers do NOT mean lower bass, that is pure stupidity. A bigger sail flapping in the breeze is going to be more efficient, that is the ONLY guaranteed difference. The rest, being frequency response, impedance, speed, Vas, Fs, MMS, XMAX, all that TS stuff has NOTHING to do with being a bigger woofer or not, it has to do with enclosure tuning, design and manufacturing.

So, what this means, especially when comparing the effect of different sized subwoofer in a given car is this: different sized woofers have just about nothing to do with frequency response, the only thing that changes is efficiency and intensity.

this is true, however comparing headphones to car audio is like comparing wheel diameter to pizza diameter. guess i should have put a disclaimer in about it relating to car audio only. "bigger woofers" mean more audible/usable bass and that is what we are talking about. so instead of trying to sound smart, please post info that is relevant to car audio. this will make it much easier for people to follow. after all we are in a car audio forum, not headphone forum.

Here is my "Old School Amplifier Rant":

I don't understand why people think that even though everything from CAT scan machines to cell phones and microwaves have improved in 20 years, yet somehow amplifiers are worse...what the fuck, those old amps are worthless garbage now, even the best of the best of the old school is easily beaten in any meaningful spec by todays el-cheap-o Taiwan pile of crap.

Old amps suck ass, period. I have piles of them, I still love them...but they are crap. It's called progress, and the stuff you can buy today is better than ever, more power for less money than ever.

/rant

did it ever occur to you that people may like older amps in general? price point is a good reason. also i wold take an ancient alpine amp over some cheap Taiwan amp simply due to reliability reasons. prices may have come down but quality control is still an important concern for some people. i am currently running 2 old eclipse amps. why? price and reliability. so here again you are showing your ass. old amps don't suck ass. they are still viable and in more peoples budget, just like buying a new car vs old. i can spend $20k on a new focus or spend the same on a 2010 3 series. i'll take the better car even though its older.

[agent]

so instead of trying to sound smart, please post info that is relevant to car audio.

Quoted for posterity/lulz.

[StereoInstaller1]

Quoted for posterity/lulz.

This kid's a winner, eh?

[Silver Wagon]

This kid's a winner, eh?

"Kid" that made me laugh. i love how the universal insult on the internet is calling someone a "kid".

anyway here is some reading you might enjoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transducer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker

[StereoInstaller1]

"Kid" that made me laugh. i love how the universal insult on the internet is calling someone a "kid".

anyway here is some reading you might enjoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transducer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker

I am sorry, did you have a point to make?

[rzerob]

:popcorn:

[Silver Wagon]

I am sorry, did you have a point to make?

could ask the same to you.