6.5" Fitment in Doors

[StereoInstaller1]

Any aftermarket speaker will sound better in the door than in the kick.

We all know what happens when you put a speaker in too small a box, right?

That's why aftermarket speakers suck ass in a BMW, they all have incorrect suspension for that tiny airspace, thats is also why "kick panel pods" all sound like dick too, zero midbass. That's why dumb-ass installers went from a fully sealed kickpanel to an open back, they lack the knowledge to build something that actually plays correctly.

Those dipshits who think they sound good have never heard what music is supposed to sound like.

In the meantime, if you must use aftermarket speakers, the doors are about the only place in the front of the car that has a large enough resonant chamber for an aftermarket 6.5", might as well do them there...or, use actual proper speaker design and put a BMW speaker where BMW designed it, so you get proper pathlength equality in the midrange, where the ear has sensitivity to such things, then put the tweeter up high, so it can reflect off of the glass (y'ever see that 3.5Khz peak off glass? 20db or more peak, don't let your tweeters play anywhere near 4Khz!) just as BMW designed, for better "spatiality", which is why the stock PS (or ours, of course) have such excellent staging.

Aftermarket speakers suck ass in a BMW, period. The airspace behind them is just too damn small and the crossover points are wrong. That's why people are so happy with properly powered stock Premium Sounds, or are way better off using the crossover we designed specifically for this application with BMW speakers, again, specifically designed for this application.

Use some actual physics, people, this ain't rocket science.

[rcsoundn1]

Best stereo I heard in some time was in a 1998 Volvo. Woofers in the doors, mounted real high, and tweeters in the dash. Most of the other cars I have seen or worked on had woofers mounted in the kicks, and for a while it seemed to be the trend to put tweeters on or in the dash.

[StereoInstaller1]

Don't you think I would have posted them? Lol, sorry, you get the the hero on this one!

[theycallmebrown]

As you will see, the vert doors area little different, but the exact same principle applies.

Luke

any photos of the non vert install?

[StereoInstaller1]

As you will see, the vert doors area little different, but the exact same principle applies.

Pull the door apart, measure where the speaker will go (hint: blue tape outside of the panel gives you a reference point to measure from) roll the window up and down to make sure the mechanism is clear, close the doors to make sure nothing gets hit, etc.

SPR60's would be a tough fit, they are pretty big....but if you are down, that will give you pretty badass SQ.

Last note...seriously, do not fuck this up: measure BOTH SIDES with both door panels off before you cut anything. Go ahead, ask me how I know...

Good luck and post some pics!

Oh yeah, make sure you get at least 3 solid screws into metal, like MCH showed above. Get at least 3 and try to get even torque over the speaker. It needs to be super tight and solid wne finished, the seal and the strength of the mounting make a huge difference in performance.

Luke

[MC Hammered]

is the speaker only fastened to the door skin? or are there sheet metal screws that actually mount it to the door frame?

I can't take credit for the speaker placement as the PO came up with the idea and did the cutting, I just cleaned up and rewired everything.

The speaker is attached in 3 points to the sheet metal and I added a screw clip in the door panel to allow the screw to 'bite' vs. just being threaded into cardboard.

[AndrewBird]

You can just barely see 3 screw holes left, top and right in his picture, so I assume 3 of the screws go into the door itself and one goes into the panel only.

[jrobie79]

is the speaker only fastened to the door skin? or are there sheet metal screws that actually mount it to the door frame?

[MC Hammered]

I have a 6.5" in the door of my vert.



What it looks like behind the door card.

[Mohit]

First, in a late model E30, there is quite a bit of room for speakers in the doors. I personally have installed bunches of 6.5's in the doors of E30s, it isn't that bad a job.

Early models can be done as well, just make sure it is a much smaller speaker (look for Neodymium woofer magnet structure).

In both cases, the speaker fits right above the map pocket...but I warn you, make sure to check both sides before you cut anything. Check with windows up and down, doors open and closed.

Now, lets talk about staging and imaging, power, sound delivery and overall SQ.

For those who clearly don't understand how this works, the facts are simple: the higher the frequency, the "weaker" the wave. So, since there is such a radical frequency spread coming from a typical mid/tweet combo, the general idea is to mount the tweeters at "ear level" so they are more audible.

High frequency is where the human ear 'locates" sound, meaning where it seems to come from. If you want sound coming from your ankles, have at it, but it is really stupid. Sound should come from the front of the car, in front of you, in a panoramic spread of instruments across your hood.

Personally, in all my 30+ years as a pro, and having judged well over 3 dozen shows, I think pretty much ever car with "knee tweeters" sounds like ass. Every time I listen to a car that has them, I notice my head bending forward, as in trying to actually hear the damn things.

Nobody puts tweeters in the kick panels anymore, we all learned not to do this in about 1991. Put them at ear level, and the stock location is just about perfect for that. If you wanna get stupid about it, the top of the dash is an incredible location, tuck them as close to the windshield as possible, as wide as possible. Do remember that glass reflects sound at the 3.5khz range, so do your best to choose a speaker that does not have a crossover point in that range, you want more like 4.5khz or higher, assuming your midwoofer can go that high.

So, put the tweeters in the stock location, put the mids above the map pockets and you should be happy. The sound will be a little "close biased" meaning you will hear more of whichever speaker is closest. It's not perfect, but it is pretty damn good.

If you should decide to stay with the stock locations be warned that ALL aftermarket speakers have the exact same issue: they sound like shit in the stock locations.

All aftermarket speakers are intended for a much larger airspace (like a door panel...HEY!), and we all know what happens when you put a big speaker in a small airspace, they lose all low frequencies...ever hear a 6X9 in one of those shitty little 6X9 boxes? Same speaker that kicks ass in the rear deck of a '79 Camaro sounds like complete ass in those dinky boxes....well, take a peek in your factory speaker locations...it's a tiny box, and that is why aftermarket speakers sound like shit in the stock locations.

Can I mount the speakers directly to the door panels using some of the mounting hardware they provided? Or does it need to be reinforced in someway? The speakers in question are Alpine SPR-60C.

[StereoInstaller1]

First, in a late model E30, there is quite a bit of room for speakers in the doors. I personally have installed bunches of 6.5's in the doors of E30s, it isn't that bad a job.

Early models can be done as well, just make sure it is a much smaller speaker (look for Neodymium woofer magnet structure).

In both cases, the speaker fits right above the map pocket...but I warn you, make sure to check both sides before you cut anything. Check with windows up and down, doors open and closed.

Now, lets talk about staging and imaging, power, sound delivery and overall SQ.

For those who clearly don't understand how this works, the facts are simple: the higher the frequency, the "weaker" the wave. So, since there is such a radical frequency spread coming from a typical mid/tweet combo, the general idea is to mount the tweeters at "ear level" so they are more audible.

High frequency is where the human ear 'locates" sound, meaning where it seems to come from. If you want sound coming from your ankles, have at it, but it is really stupid. Sound should come from the front of the car, in front of you, in a panoramic spread of instruments across your hood.

Personally, in all my 30+ years as a pro, and having judged well over 3 dozen shows, I think pretty much ever car with "knee tweeters" sounds like ass. Every time I listen to a car that has them, I notice my head bending forward, as in trying to actually hear the damn things.

Nobody puts tweeters in the kick panels anymore, we all learned not to do this in about 1991. Put them at ear level, and the stock location is just about perfect for that. If you wanna get stupid about it, the top of the dash is an incredible location, tuck them as close to the windshield as possible, as wide as possible. Do remember that glass reflects sound at the 3.5khz range, so do your best to choose a speaker that does not have a crossover point in that range, you want more like 4.5khz or higher, assuming your midwoofer can go that high.

So, put the tweeters in the stock location, put the mids above the map pockets and you should be happy. The sound will be a little "close biased" meaning you will hear more of whichever speaker is closest. It's not perfect, but it is pretty damn good.

If you should decide to stay with the stock locations be warned that ALL aftermarket speakers have the exact same issue: they sound like shit in the stock locations.

All aftermarket speakers are intended for a much larger airspace (like a door panel...HEY!), and we all know what happens when you put a big speaker in a small airspace, they lose all low frequencies...ever hear a 6X9 in one of those shitty little 6X9 boxes? Same speaker that kicks ass in the rear deck of a '79 Camaro sounds like complete ass in those dinky boxes....well, take a peek in your factory speaker locations...it's a tiny box, and that is why aftermarket speakers sound like shit in the stock locations.

[Silver Wagon]

What on earth are you talking about? Proper placement is for soundstaging - which is always the most important thing - not volume. Soundstaging always comes first, everything else comes second to that. You don't put your tweeters on the floor to control their volume, you put your tweeters where they belong - ear level - and then you worry about their volume and phasing afterwards. This is why the woofer in a home speaker is on the bottom and the highs are on the top, to keep the soundstage at the proper height. I can only assume you're completely deaf if you can't hear the difference between a properly staged setup and some tweeters on the floor.

to get good sound staging without band-aiding placement is critical. in a car the best place is the kick panels due to the distance you can achieve. you do know tweeters are very directional right? as in a slight angel in any direction will have an effect on how they sound.

tell you what, go ahead and put some home theater speakers in the front of the car and let me know how that sounds. go ahead, i'll wait.



now that that failed miserably, just try this. sit in your car turn the stereo on, turn it up to a decent reference type level. now close your eyes and mentally visualize where the source of the music is coming from. that is your sound stage. now keeping that point in mind, open your eyes and see where that point is in the car.

time for some homework, read up on sound staging in cars, not home theater cause they are two different animals. come back here and let me know what you read. post some links so i can read them also. then i will grade your work.

am i the only one that feels like i am having to say the same thing over and over?

[Ether-D]

Idk, I've done it on a vert but not anything else so I can't say fo sho.

[Mohit]

The pic with the 6.5 mounted in the door is a vert. The window doesn't roll down into that space on the vert doors, but does on all others.

So basically you can't mount a speaker there on a non-vert car?

[Liquidity]

What on earth are you talking about? Proper placement is for soundstaging - which is always the most important thing - not volume. Soundstaging always comes first, everything else comes second to that. You don't put your tweeters on the floor to control their volume, you put your tweeters where they belong - ear level - and then you worry about their volume and phasing afterwards. This is why the woofer in a home speaker is on the bottom and the highs are on the top, to keep the soundstage at the proper height. I can only assume you're completely deaf if you can't hear the difference between a properly staged setup and some tweeters on the floor.