best 12" subwoofer suggestions.

[e30 gangsta]

Hey guys recently installed my lukebox with an older kicker comp vr that I have. And I'm looking to upgrade the sub to something better. I'm not looking for earth rattling bass. I'm just looking for a sub that can keep up with all the weird music I listen to, and something that will be an upgrade over my current comp vrs. Thanks.

[Nesset]

To be dead honest, if you want really good frequency response. Go with an 8in woofer. What is the amplifier you are running? This could help gauge what sort of power the woofer needs to handle.

[dubdub]

... given that he said he just installed a 12" box, my guess is that your advice to go to a 8" sub isn't helpful.

I'd go back to the source. You need to know what parameters the box was designed around. I am sure they have a handful of subs that they would recommend. Asking others here is not really useful, the sub and box need to work together.

[rcsoundn1]

8" woofer has better frequency response? and what theory is that based on?

[StereoInstaller1]

Hey guys recently installed my lukebox with an older kicker comp vr that I have. And I'm looking to upgrade the sub to something better. I'm not looking for earth rattling bass. I'm just looking for a sub that can keep up with all the weird music I listen to, and something that will be an upgrade over my current comp vrs. Thanks.

I'd go back to the source. You need to know what parameters the box was designed around. I am sure they have a handful of subs that they would recommend. Asking others here is not really useful, the sub and box need to work together.

We actually are always looking for new choices to recommend, so I absolutely love these "what woofer do I use" posts.

So, thank you for your logical advice to this young man, but now lets find him a good woofer!

Now for a whole buttload of words and numbers and stuff:

Simple answer is this: keep a low Qts (aim for under .42, lower is better) a low Fs (on a 12", under 30 is good, lower is better) and a fairly large Xmax (10mm or better) and ideally, a Moving Mass (MM) under 200 grams. You need a 2" voice coil at an absolute minimum, 2.5" is significantly better, 3" better still. There aren't many 4" voice coil woofers, if you found a Fosgate Power DVC from the early 90's, grab it. Higher sensitivity is always helpful, a bigger VC that needs 1200 watts to play 125db is dumb, IMO.

Enclosure specs are 2.12 cubic feet gross, with our port displacement and a typical woofer displacement, around 1.8 cubic feet, tuned to 32Hz.

Now, that being said, keep 2 things in mind: one, woofer specs change over time and two, these things are rarely even tested. The numbers you get on a spec sheet aren't necessarily accurate, they are extrapolated from various design parameters on a computer...what you get when you test in the real world is almost always completely different, and different again when you test the same woofer two years later.

However, the good news is this: I have found over the years and literally hundreds of BMW systems having been tuned using dozens of different woofers in dozens of different box designs (not to mention 25+ years of installing professionally in anything from a D8 Caterpilar to a 4 door '69 Lincoln Convertible) that the reality is simple: the interface of the box to the cabin is more important than the interface of the woofer and the box.

So, that is why, even though if you use any modeling software in the world, your Kicker is absolutely atrocious in a "power response" graph of any kind. (don't feel bad, so is a Type R or a W6 newer than 1999) The Qts parameter especially is critical, as "Q" is a function of "resonance magnification" of whatever peaks are in the response curve...yet even that, installed in the box you have, sounds pretty damn decent, doesn't it?

If you were to find a better match, maybe something like this: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...12-D4-V.3.html or this: http://americanbassusa.com/product.d...product_id/171

The thing is there are woofers all over that work really well at all sorts of price points. I use a lot of Infinity and PowerBass woofers, too, if yours were a 10" I would recommend those two first.

Oh yeah, one last thing: make sure you match the woofers impedance to the amps minimum impedance...meaning yes, you need to match the amp tot he woofer to get the best performance. Power handling is a complete crap shoot, but impedance is pretty critical. Too much and your amp smokes, too little and you lose power...gotta get it right, so as said below, what amp you got?

To be dead honest, if you want really good frequency response. Go with an 8in woofer. What is the amplifier you are running? This could help gauge what sort of power the woofer needs to handle.

... given that he said he just installed a 12" box, my guess is that your advice to go to a 8" sub isn't helpful.

I think what he is trying to say is "If you want better accuracy, get an 8" woofer" which is old-school thinking, so I can dig what you are trying to get across...but the truth is that most installers simply have no fucking clue how to build an accurate system, and sure as hell didn't 30 years ago, which is where this old myth is from. Fact is that all of our boxes sound and perform very similar, with the only real difference being just how gracefully they play the lowest notes. That whole "8's are tighter" is basically nonsense, that 'tight" sound is more of a function of the crossover between the subwoofer and the midwoofer, phase angles and such.

So, to break all that down, here are three questions:

1. What amp do you plan to use
2. How much of your money can we spend
3. If you had to choose between giant boom or absolute accuracy, which would win? Break them both down like this: you get 100 points total, how many are on boom, how many are for clarity?

We will get you dialed as always.

Luke

[Morrison]

Finding a sub with these types of parameters is somewhat hard these days. I've never heard one but people used to and still do rave about the Oz Audio "superman" series subs, I think he'd want a model 300L. The L actually stood for low Qts, and then they had an "H" version as well. I don't think they were known to get real loud, but nobody probably ever heard one in a lukebox.

[e30 gangsta]

So, to break all that down, here are three questions:

1. What amp do you plan to use
2. How much of your money can we spend
3. If you had to choose between giant boom or absolute accuracy, which would win? Break them both down like this: you get 100 points total, how many are on boom, how many are for clarity?

We will get you dialed as always.

Luke

Thank you luke for chiming in. I will post a picture of the amp I am using and the model number later this afternoon.

2. A reasonable amount. I dont need a $700 woofer.

3. Accuracy would win for me. I dont really care about quadding and shaking the entire block, I just want a speaker that can pick up all the low subbass ( 30hz-60hz). I hear tracks that I play on a proper soundsytem in a club venue and the bass goes off. I play it in my car and it dies off.

Ill post my information later on today.

Sorry that I am a noob when it comes to this stuff. I really appreciate the help Luke.