E30 Sound Setup

[potatomash]

Hey guys, looking for a bit of advice.

I'm in the process of upgrading my sounds in my e30 coupe and here's what I've got.

Focal PS130F 13cm fronts
Factory Pioneer 6" rears
Pioneer DEH-x8700BH head unit

I also have an old Clarion APA4160 and Sony Xplod 1200w sub waiting to go in.

Received my head unit today and my speakers last week (which i'd already put in) and was excited so just wired the four speakers up all off the head unit (also amp wiring kit hasn't arrived yet).

To my surprise the rear's which I thought were rooted sound amazing (score!) - not that rears are really where I want the sound coming from anyway, but that's a bonus.

Now the down fall is the 'flash' Focal fronts which don't seem to go very loud at all. I got advised these where some really good 13cm speakers so I feel like something is wrong and they should be going louder.

I tried putting one in the back and taking out one the 6's just to see. It was a bit better which makes me think the acoustics of the small kick panel holes are really bad?? But even so they still didn't go anywhere as loud as I expect for such a good looking speaker, and the magnets are so beefy too!

Other thoughts are, wiring is shagged? Or the headunit just doesn't have enough juice to make them go good? They are rated at 60wrms and 120wmax.

I plan to put my amp in next week and run the fronts + sub off that and rears off the head unit, but until then does anyone have any idea as to why they are not performing very well?

Help much appreciated this my first sound install.

Cheers Scott.

[audiquattrot]

I had to mess with the fader, to even out the sound in the front. If the sound is running thru the stock headunit, most of your sound will come out from the rear. Amping the front should correct that. I just adjusted the fader more towards the front, since I don't have an external amp powering the speakers.

[potatomash]

I played with fader and yea I can tone down the rears but I'm still not impressed by the focal speakers performance so there must be something other...hopefully amp fixes all.

Would sound deadening around the front speakers make a big difference?

[lkuck100]

Well if I have the 6 speaker audio you will have to make sure the front for speakers can handle the power. They sell small units that can be mounted in the glovebox or under the dash(if u want all of that work). I put in a Sony head unit that allows me to tune the speakers from my phone. I just turned the front up more and it sounded fine. I thought about adding an amp to the front but it's a lot of work.


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[potatomash]

I have 4 speakers, two fronts two rears, currently, everything is running off headunit, but next week I will be running just the fronts off the amp and the rears off the headunit.

I guess my main question is are my focal ps130f's crap or do they just need an external amp (which I have waiting to go in)...

[AndrewBird]

It was a bit better which makes me think the acoustics of the small kick panel holes are really bad??

Nailed it. The stock kick panel location is super tiny and most everything will sound just terrible. Late model E34 drivers or even E30 premium sound speakers are going to be your best bet and sound better than what you have now.

[StereoInstaller1]

I have 4 speakers, two fronts two rears, currently, everything is running off headunit, but next week I will be running just the fronts off the amp and the rears off the headunit.

I guess my main question is are my focal ps130f's crap or do they just need an external amp (which I have waiting to go in)...

If it sounds like crap at 1 watt, it will just be louder crap.

The issue is simple: your Focals were designed to sound good in a display board, as are all aftermarket speakers. That fortunately also works well in a Tahoe (Camry, CRV, you name it) door panel, meaning essentially, infinite baffle.

Your E30, and all BMWs actually, has a tiny little chamber behind each speaker. We know what hapopens when a speaker is put in too small a box: bottom end is limited, upper frequencies get squashed....so, your Focals, which sound great in the doors of a normal car, sound like complete crap in the stock locations of the E30.

It's just bad math, and no amount of power can fix it.

Conveniently enough, there is a company making aftermarket crossovers designed to work perfectly in your car's interior, using OE BMW speakers...

but, seriously, swap out a set of Premium midwoofers in place of those focals. It will still be bright as hell, but at least there will be some bottom end to go with it.

Luke

[potatomash]

Ugh, why did my advisor not warn me of this before I bought the focals. Thanks for the advice thats what I needed to know!

[StereoInstaller1]

Ugh, why did my advisor not warn me of this before I bought the focals. Thanks for the advice thats what I needed to know!

Well, here's the thing...no one knows.

It's my theory. I wrote it from the ground up. It's been proven now hundreds and hundreds of times, plus it is easily verifiable through measurements, and if you explain it to any knowledgeable speaker designer, they will say "Oh shit! That makes all the sense in the world!" because the symptoms are so obvious once you think of the environment.

I just happen to be the guy who thought of it.

Took a long time too, lots and lots of cars, huge systems, small systems, years and years of back breaking work. Hell, I have specialized in BMWs since 1984, it's been a very long time coming. This entire concept has matured into a viable, explainable concept only in the last 3 or 4 years, it's still relatively new to me...and because I am known only in a tiny microcosm of the internet...no one knows.

So, don't blame "your adviser" too much, the entire industry has it wrong, as did I for many many years. We all learn, right?

I have heard "Premiums" are rare down there in NZ, so, for now, go find an E34 or E36 and grab the front speakers out of it, just the 2 midwoofers. You need 4, so hit 2 cars. Throw those in place of the Focals, do some listening, and report back when you can.

Luke

[rcsoundn1]

i have an app for those focals if you are looking to get rid of them....

[StereoInstaller1]

He is in New Zealand....

[potatomash]

Haha yeah, wouldn't be worth sending for the cost of shipping..

Question for Luke, I've got the setup going at the moment with amp and sub and just the Focals cause haven't tracked down any BMW fronts yet. When I hit the brake I get a nice loud crackle/pop out of my tweeters.

Is it a bad ground somewhere? or interference from the brake light switch/cables?

[StereoInstaller1]

Oh man.... Yes, show a pic of the amps ground point

[potatomash]

It's not amp ground though cause tried to isolate it by connecting amp straight to negative on battery to check if problem went away but noise was the same..

[potatomash]

The intranets say I should try this, common issue with pioneer head units apparently..