Best type of sub install for E30's?

[Gmas]

So I'm looking at building just a nice, clean, SQ system for my new '90 325i. I was just wondering what the best type of sub install is for our cars. I've read there's issues with getting enough bass through to the cabin and such from the trunk. I've also seen some people port through the rear speaker deck in the back seats and heard people were happy with that.

I was going to run a set of Focal components in the front off of a JL 300/4, with the two other channels bridged for the sub. Was thinking about a 10" Image Dynamics IDQ in a sealed box in the trunk, and that's basically the reason for this post. If there's any better ways to go about installing a sub for our cars? Looking for nothing too fancy, but will do whatever it takes if there's a big difference in applications.

Thanks!

[s52e368]

i have a
pioneer prmeire (sp) 12" dvc
in a vented box sounds great //

[smonkbmw]

if you have a rear armrest you are good, cut out a hole in the shape of the armrest into the metal (behind the seat back). if not, perforate (spell?) the metal panel, take the seat back out and cut holes with a hole saw every few inchs and put the seat back in.

[StereoInstaller1]

Hi Gmas, welcome to R3V.

A single 10" sealed is gonna have a hard time producing even 120db in an E30. The single most important thing I have found (especailly for SQ) is they type of rear seat you have.

IMO, the best for sound is a cloth M3. Good luck! Next is any fold down (which is what I rock on a 2.5 cu.ft vented box, 20 4" ports 28" long, which fire through the factory rear speaker location)

E30's have an odd transfer function...basically, they have a HUGE peak below about 40, then a huge dropoff above 60...combine that with one of the worst front speaker locations known to man (tiny airspace, firing at your ankles) so you get virtually no midbass and a "squaky" midrange...no wonder these cars typically sound "thin".

I recently did a IDQ 10 in a 1.0 cu.ft sealed box. Personally, I have heard better bass from a WalMart Sony woofer. I thought it sounded "tubby" with a heavy "WONK" at the end of any bass note, expecailly bass guitar. Good "Boom" though, so if rap or hip hop is your game you should be OK...except for the poor output levels.

Personally, if I were gonna go sealed, one of the best is Alumapro. If AudioBahn made a AW1006 in SVC I could heartily recommend it...one of the finest sealed box woofers ever made. You will find that aluminum cones make great sealed box woofers...go listen to an Infinity "Perfect" 10 in a 1.0 cu.ft. sealed...impressive, to say the least.

AS far as the install goes, build your box to completely seal into the cabing, through the ski hole. You will have less rattles, better output, better SQ...just way harder to make, since most installers are lazy fucks.

GL, HTH,
Luke

[Gmas]

Hey guys,

Thanks so much for the quick responses, especially Luke for all the details and explanation. The guy I bought the car from actually put a nice leather interior from an E30 M3 in it, however for this purpose, it means no fold down rear seat/ski hole :(

Do any of the recommendations change then? I would most likely be having a (hopefully talented) installer build whatever box/apparatus I need. It sounds like you can go the more simple route with a box and put up with lesser sound quality, less bass, and more rattles, or take the plunge and build something a little fancier to get great sound. Thanks for the tip on front speaker placement too, Ill be sure to look into that when I go to have those put in as well.

I guess the IDQ is out too then. I had just decided on the IDQ based on good reviews I had read for SQ subs that don't require tons of power. I listen to more punk/rock/alternative/mellow stuff, but I do have the odd hip-hop disc. I'll look into Alumapro then - thanks guys!

[hugh jass]

if you really want to hear the bass, you might want to consider searching for a rear seatrest that has the fold down armrest. it took me a little while, but i finally found one that matched my interior. the sound transformation is amazing, and everything still looks stock. cutting a hole in the rear deck is lame imo, and you just lose too much bass when it has to fire through the firewall and a foam seatback.

[smonkbmw]

sooo captain krispy kream, what do you recco for a front speaker install? i was gonna get a 6 1/2 component setup in the front kicks and tweets in the factory location also.

[Mless5]

Hi Gmas, welcome to R3V.

A single 10" sealed is gonna have a hard time producing even 120db in an E30. The single most important thing I have found (especailly for SQ) is they type of rear seat you have.

IMO, the best for sound is a cloth M3. Good luck! Next is any fold down (which is what I rock on a 2.5 cu.ft vented box, 20 4" ports 28" long, which fire through the factory rear speaker location)

E30's have an odd transfer function...basically, they have a HUGE peak below about 40, then a huge dropoff above 60...combine that with one of the worst front speaker locations known to man (tiny airspace, firing at your ankles) so you get virtually no midbass and a "squaky" midrange...no wonder these cars typically sound "thin".

I recently did a IDQ 10 in a 1.0 cu.ft sealed box. Personally, I have heard better bass from a WalMart Sony woofer. I thought it sounded "tubby" with a heavy "WONK" at the end of any bass note, expecailly bass guitar. Good "Boom" though, so if rap or hip hop is your game you should be OK...except for the poor output levels.

Personally, if I were gonna go sealed, one of the best is Alumapro. If AudioBahn made a AW1006 in SVC I could heartily recommend it...one of the finest sealed box woofers ever made. You will find that aluminum cones make great sealed box woofers...go listen to an Infinity "Perfect" 10 in a 1.0 cu.ft. sealed...impressive, to say the least.

AS far as the install goes, build your box to completely seal into the cabing, through the ski hole. You will have less rattles, better output, better SQ...just way harder to make, since most installers are lazy fucks.

GL, HTH,
Luke

Luke, what kind enclosure was it in? I was recently building a box for one, I ended up with 0.5ft after sub displacement and it sounded great. I'm not into crazy boomy rattly lows. I'm not a big fan of subs over 8" (for fast punchy punk/punk rock), but that one wasn't actually all that bad.

smonkbmw: there really isn't much of a choice unfortunately. BMW location suck and there is nothing you can do about it unless you do kustom kicks or cut your doors.
Igor.

[lilo_bayb]

i have a 12" Rockford HX2 subwoofer hooked up to a Clarion 400 watt/2 ch amp....and i don't have a armrest or holes in the medal behind the rear seats....and the bass sounds clear and loud....i sudgest u chuck in a good woofer and lsn to it before u do n e cutting or drilling holes...

[Borat]

AS far as the install goes, build your box to completely seal into the cabing, through the ski hole. You will have less rattles, better output, better SQ...just way harder to make, since most installers are lazy fucks.

Would an enclosure like this be better sealed or ported? (ala Jordan's setup) or does it depend on the sub/manufacturers recommendations?

I would like to redo my set up to a single twelve/ten firing through the ski hole as well (I have fold down arm rest). Listen to anything from Iron Maiden to Dire Straights etc I don't listen to hip-hop or techno/dance. Any recommendations for subs/setups?

Should also mention that I'll be using an alpine amp with 350w rms@ 2 ohm

Cheers

[dmoffitt]

At least in my limited knowledge, ported = SPL sealed = more linear thus SQ. I'm sure there are exceptions though (Luke?).

I have a lot of love for the JL 12W6 - the dub-7s are just too.... beefy, unless you want to pound the crap out of your ears and buy too much amp, what's the point :D The w6 + zapco 500.1 still hit ummm iirc 137 in my friend's EVO which is more than loud enough in my book, yet I still found it tight and accurate (FWIW it was in a .75-.8 sealed box).

I could care less what db I reach, as long as bass output is linear, accurate, fast/tight and in phase (well, time aligned, phase doesn't seem quite as important when you're dealing with wavelengths as short as they are in the cabin of a car)... I'm hoping that removing the rear deck speakers (gutting the shell / grill) and having a fold-down rear seat armrest for the ski pass-thru will be enough to get output into the cabin w/o having to resort to holes etc, so I feel your pain :)

[StereoInstaller1]

At least in my limited knowledge, ported = SPL sealed = more linear thus SQ. I'm sure there are exceptions though (Luke?).

I have said it before. I will say it again. Engeneering is more important than anything. If you haven't run MLSSA or even an RTA in YOUR car, in YOUR install, you really cannot know. Since the environment has HUGE peaks and valleys, how "linear" you woofer is makes no difference at all.

I prefer the sound of a well designed ported box, but they are BIG. I love the "slam" and the wild dynamics. I just cannot tolerate the typical "Pipe Organ" noises and huge peaky response that most installers come up with.

I run a Memphis M1 10" in 2.7 cu.ft.,but with HUGE ports. Clean as hell, plays really low (but not low enough) and is amazingly efficient.

Tang Band makes an 8"X12" sub that is highly sensitive, cheap, excellent frequency response, VERY low Moving Mass (115gms) so it should have excellent transient response. One of these days I am gonna get hold of one of those and build a box for it. I think it could sound great and make plenty of boom (125db @ 25hz is the goal) with teriffic clarity PLUS fit the ski-boot hole perfectly.

As far as getting me to actually LIKE a JL product, good luck. Each new "design" sounds worse, and requires more power to make it play loud.

Luke

[HST]

bad linky link

[NC325iC]

luke have you ever listened to a setup in a vert. i dont know how much different they sound but the bass in my car is more than enough (as far as volume goes) and im running a 10" rockford punch 1000peak 500rms (cant remember the p/n) in a fairly small sealed box all the way at the back of the trunk (next to the jack) pushed by 380 rms. i know there is alot of difference with the back seat in the cab, there are almost no holes in the wall just behind the seat but several on the back wall.(there is a dual wall for more structural integrity)

[StereoInstaller1]

luke have you ever listened to a setup in a vert. i dont know how much different they sound but the bass in my car is more than enough (as far as volume goes) and im running a 10" rockford punch 1000peak 500rms (cant remember the p/n) in a fairly small sealed box all the way at the back of the trunk (next to the jack) pushed by 380 rms. i know there is alot of difference with the back seat in the cab, there are almost no holes in the wall just behind the seat but several on the back wall.(there is a dual wall for more structural integrity)

Yeah, I have done several 'verts. I did one where I cut out the front wall, welded in bracing, shoved a box with 4) 10" Beckers (isobarik) in 2.2 cu.ft, ported. Fit behind the rear seat flawlessly, vented the rear seat with a 2" holesaw (from the back, of course).

I also did a Mustang 'vert back in about 82 or 83, whenever they first came back. Did a single 15" "Punch Pro" in a sealed box, firing down, into a chamber about 17"X3", about 28" long. It acted as a bandpass, firing all of the energt into the car, through the back seat. Serious thunder! I have no idea of the tuning, but running on half of a "Power 650" it was loud as hell. Not the best sounding, mind you, but loud.

If I had a vert, I would do 4) 8", sealed, behind the seat, with an Epicenter.

As far as your install, you are gaining about 10 to 15db by placing that sub way in the back. Loading is everything! Have you thought about venting into the cab more forcefully?

Luke