Whats worth more?

[McCoolidge]

Hi, I have a stock premium system in my es, and I was wondering, is it worth more to keep the perfect stock system, or should I switch it out to an aftermarket MB Quart system? When I do go to sell (in a looooong time) which would be worth more?

[StereoInstaller1]

Hi, I have a stock premium system in my es, and I was wondering, is it worth more to keep the perfect stock system,

You could keep the stock speakers hanging around to put back in at sale time, y'know. UV light does more damage to speakers than anything, so they will be in better shape being stored.

should I switch it out to an aftermarket MB Quart system?

Or, how about something that sounds good instead? MB Quart speakers sound better with a band-aid over the tweeter. I fucking HATE Chinese crap masquerading as quality stuff:Stuff that used to be worth owning, even if it has shitty power handling and sounds as thin as Callista Flockhart.

When I do go to sell (in a looooong time) which would be worth more?

Are you really saying you are concerned about the speakers effect on the cars' resale value?


That is so cute.

Is your ES like a 12,000 mile all original garage queen? If not, (and so few are) fuck it, man. It is not gonna hurt the resale as long as you don't hack the thing.

Anyway, good luck.
Luke

[whakiewes]

Luke,

Please elaborate on your MB Quart reviews. I have played with a ton of different speakers, much of which have been MB Quart. What many people fail to realize is what goes into a sound system. There are different quality MB's, just as other speakers, ranging from $50/pair to $800/pair. The Discuss and Reference line that you can buy at any audio store are chinese made, POS, but they sound better than your standard JL or Pioneer speaker. They are much clearer. When you step into the Premium and Q-line speakers, there isn't much I have used that has been able to top it. The SQ, build quality, and service are phenominal. I have also used several A/D/S/ speakers, from the lolely 235im/iS all the way up to the 640i series component set. They are also top line speakers.

Any speaker is going to sound better than 80's oem pieces, regardless of what you get. I choose top of the line sound quality over play loud systems. I have tons of tweeters, a range of speakers, but most importantly everything is amped running through a Nakamichi CD-500 24-bit CD player. I have been looking to upgrade to a Clarion DRZ9255 or McIntosh MX406, although I doubt I will notice any change in SQ. My current system is A/D/S/ 235im 5.25, 325im 5.25, MB PCE100 4", Infinity 9206i 6X9's, and Infinity Kappa 12.1 free air setup. A/D/S/ 630X runs my 5.25 and 4" speakers, A/D/S/ 440X runs the Infinity 6X9's, and an Alpine mono for the sub. I don't think I have ever heard a non-competition system sound as clear and clean as my setup. All new wires and cables were ran to replace the 20yro parts.

Wes

[wagonizzle]

Wes,

I worked in car audio for over 5 years and I second Luke's sentiment. I have never been a fan of MBQ, even BEFORE they were purchased by Rockford Fosgate (5 years or so; so much for German engineering). My personal gripe is that everything else being equal in a system, the MBQ's always seemed to lack good midbass, and the tweeters become very fatiguing to listen to at higher volumes for any period of time. We used to sell the snot out of them for two reasons: 1) The tweeters are very bright, which the average person deciphers as "clear" and "crisp", and 2) Back in the day, they were very tough and had tweeter protection built in to the PSC line which kept all but the most abusive users rockin' steady. For my money, I would prefer Eclipse, Diamond Audio, Morel, Hertz, etc. Of course, the biggest key to your car audio happiness is having the right components for both your car and listening style, that they are well matched to each other, and that whomever installs it (properly) also knows how to tune. I have seen more wasted money on crap because most people don't understand how to build a proper setup, or what things are important. It doesn't help that wattage ratings are skewed, making it harder to DIY if you don't know much. One more thing... a good source and an amp that delivers quality wattage will do more for your system than anything else. I stunned more than a few customers by adding a head, amp and sub to their factory speakers. Good luck!

EDIT - You want sound quality but you're using a free air box? I think you can do better...

[StereoInstaller1]

Wes, right now there is just not enough coffee in the world to jack me up enough to do a serious stereo rant. I am just too tired.

I will say this: the 9255 (NOT the new one, the early one) has easily the best sounding pre-amp stage ever to happen in car audio...well, Nakamichi Cassette decks of the early 80's were better, but not by much.

ADS is now owned by DEI. 100% Chinese made. Not the stuff of legend, let me tell you. Not saying it is junk, just nothing like the old stuff.

Even counting the shitty electrolytic capacitors in all old ADS crossovers. A fuse to protect a tweeter? WTF, talk about crap! Use real crossovers and your protection isn't as desperately needed...once you get hysterisis distortion under control, and the caps don't get voltage saturation at anything over 10 watts, you could do without ANY tweeter protection at all.

I am not even gonna get into using an iron core choke coil on the low pass...just crap, I tells ya! Phenolic PCBs, junk parts, PITA install...ah, the good old days. Give me Peerless, Vifa, Scan-Speak...even cheap ass Audax crap! Real men build their OWN damn grilles and the crossovers too.

AAAACK! Quick, [/rant].

OK, I am better now.

New Quart are ALL Chinese made, according to the rep. The last of the ones made by LPG (the German ones) are gone. I have installed "Q" series, tri-amped with Zapco twice, once in an early 90's MBZ, once in an F-350 owned by one of the few pipe organ repairmen in the US.

I would far prefer to listen to either Morel or Dynaudio any day.

Depending on cost, that is. These days, with the quality of the Chinese made product skyrocketing, and the cost plummeting, I would rather have (for the same money) ARC Audio amps powering Memphis or Exile seperates in true tri-amp mode than any high dollar speaker you will ever find, including Dynaudio!

Don't discount the sound of those 20 year old paper cone Nokia speakers, either. Yank the paper (under the grille, over the tweet) off of the front tweeter, power the front stage with a tiny 4 channel, the rear from a tiny 2 channel and a small sub, all fed from an AudioControl 6XS crossover and a business class CD43 deck...with proper tuning could easily be a world class sound for under $800...

I say those stock premium sound speakers even on a normal deck (in high-pass, with a sub) sound better than most cheap aftermarket speakers with just a couple of mods and decent crossovers.

Luke

[McCoolidge]

"Are you really saying you are concerned about the speakers effect on the cars' resale value?


That is so cute."


I won't tear into you because you do not know the mentality of the car market I am dealing with, but yes, something like that could affect the resale value in a place like nebraska, I have only seen about 5 e30's around here that haven't been in u-pull-it or other wrecker. I like MB Quarts crispness in their tweeters and that is what pulled me in. Your a smart guy and I really do respect your opinion so I would like to know what system you would put in. I would like to only run one amp tops 500 RMS I dont want to install another battery. I would like to keep the stuff all one brand but I would mix it up if I had too.

[whakiewes]

Wagonizzle - One of the things I did like about the MB's was the crispness. I don't like much bass. I like an even system if that makes any sense. Going 'boom' means nothing to me if I don't have speakers loud enough to handle 1000w's of sub. I am not expert with speakers, just experience with what I have used. My car is a daily driven car that sees track time so a box is out of the question. The free-air setup, albeit old and not as clean fits me perfectly. It also gives me the right amount of bass for my needs. Again, I have no interest in booming.

Luke - I will give you credit, I don't concern myself with much on where the parts are made. My A/D/S/'s are circa 1999 or so, maybe before they were purchased. They are now marketed through other makes, but I still enjoy the 325/345is's and the 640's a lot. My previous 640's clearly said on the back 'made in Germany' and they were circa 2004ish. I have used Diamond Audio's before and enjoyed them in my E36, but took them to be only 'average'. I wasn't running a good system so that might be the reason. I may try some more. I am looking into changing a few things around in the next year or so. I really like the Addzest 9255 a ton, but finding one not oversee's and not very expensive is hard. I think it would be a good upgrade, I was just saying I am not sure if I will personally notice the difference in SQ over the Nak. So if you took my speaker setup, 5.25 in stock front and rear locations, 4" with tweeter mounts in the doors, 6X9's drilled into the rear deck, what would you change?

Wes

[808BMW]

Luke owns a shop and has been in the biz for 30? something years. So his advice is pretty good on these things ;)

I will agree that MBQ's are about the harshest speakers I have ever heard. You know that eardrum cracker feeling from screeching titanium tweets? Thats what I think of when I hear MBQ :P

I have a set of CDT EF components with a silk tweet and they are great. My cousin had Q's in 2 of his vehicles and they were always too harsh for me.

[DSchultz325e]

Hi, I have a stock premium system in my es, and I was wondering, is it worth more to keep the perfect stock system, or should I switch it out to an aftermarket MB Quart system? When I do go to sell (in a looooong time) which would be worth more?

You will almost never get the money you dump into your stereo back if you sell your car. I've got a couple grand worth of gear in my car (85 325e school/work transport beater), but if I sold it I would not expect to get anything more than 1000 dollars. If you are certain you will earn money back from your sunken cost, then go for it, otherwise don't expect to even make 1/3 of the cost back.

You should buy whatever you think sounds good, and that's it. "How speakers sound" is entirely objective. You like brightness associated with the metal dome tweets, fine. I can't stand that shit for 2 seconds. I also need that midbass to be right in front and prominent. So, demo a bunch of speakers with your selected familiar material (NOT mp3s) at shops, and buy what fits your bill. Hopefully you have a reference for how your music should sound, and that's the main thing you should base speaker purchases on. Avoid externality and convincing yourself you like Y product instead of X product because you heard a bunch of people dislike X and like Y instead, even though you gravitated toward product X in the first place. It's your ears and your music and your car, not ours.

[StereoInstaller1]

You will almost never get the money you dump into your stereo back if you sell your car. I've got a couple grand worth of gear in my car (85 325e school/work transport beater), but if I sold it I would not expect to get anything more than 1000 dollars. If you are certain you will earn money back from your sunken cost, then go for it, otherwise don't expect to even make 1/3 of the cost back.

You should buy whatever you think sounds good, and that's it. "How speakers sound" is entirely objective. You like brightness associated with the metal dome tweets, fine. I can't stand that shit for 2 seconds. I also need that midbass to be right in front and prominent. So, demo a bunch of speakers with your selected familiar material (NOT mp3s) at shops, and buy what fits your bill. Hopefully you have a reference for how your music should sound, and that's the main thing you should base speaker purchases on. Avoid externality and convincing yourself you like Y product instead of X product because you heard a bunch of people dislike X and like Y instead, even though you gravitated toward product X in the first place. It's your ears and your music and your car, not ours.

QFMFT.

Luke

[netcsk]

You guys are lumping all titanium into sounding harsh. If they are designed correctly, they won't be. Just wanted to make sure people weren't thinking the material is a bad one to use.

[whakiewes]

FWIW, after all of this talk I went to my local audio stores and did some demo's. There is a clear difference between a metal based tweeter sound and a silk tweeter sound. Those who enjoy a deeper bassier sound will probably sell towards the silk tweets. The aluminum and titanium were notably, as people put it, harsher than the silk tweets. One thing I did notice though is majority of the speakers I listened to distorted out early. The only ones that didn't were the $800 Focal's and JL XR's. I had the sales man run them all through amps which made a definant difference, but at a lot softer than I would like they started to all distort out. All of my local shops stopped carrying MB Quart and A/D/S/ was never really available in my area. There is also a very clear sound difference between components and coaxials. If people have never done this before, it would be worth your time. I was running everything through the best CD player each had available, my store-bought CD. Amazing the differences you hear!

Wes

[DSchultz325e]

You guys are lumping all titanium into sounding harsh. If they are designed correctly, they won't be. Just wanted to make sure people weren't thinking the material is a bad one to use.

Bright does not imply harsh. Most of the time it's just poor passive crossover design that leads to the harshness. It's usually just a matter of knocking a few dB off the midrange (1-2kHz) if you want to tame it. Better yet, bi-amp and you're good to go.

[wagonizzle]

Wes -

Be careful evaluating speakers on a demo board. I could probably come up with 20 reasons it is a bad idea real fast, the top one being that a showroom is about as dissimilar to your car's interior as you can get. Second, the axis at which the speakers sit on in a display board vs. you in your driver's seat are totally different. Third, high frequencies are very directional, and easily blocked; thus component speakers that allow more optimal placement of the tweeter. Try moving your head to the same level as the speakers and notice the difference on a display board. It's very noticeable.
If you are not a big bass guy, that is all the more reason to get a component set with a healthy midbass driver (unlike MBQ). You will not have to worry about a 5.25" driver being too "boomy", but if you have a low output sub region, having speakers up front that can bring some presence and warmth to the system is a good thing. Your subs shouldn't be playing up that high anyway. As far as having a box goes, you could get away with a box with as little as .5 cu/ft of internal airspace if you need something small, and would probably be able to match your current output with 10x the sound quality. Newer woofers don't have the ridiculous airspace requirements of the older gear and you can make up for lack of air with more power.
Just think about what your end result goal is. You are attempting to have a 'balanced' system, but there are things you could be doing to make a more well rounded setup with the money you have. FWIW, I don't hate all metal tweeters; many of them can sound great when matched with the right components. Just can't listen to MBQ loudly for more than 20 minutes or so. They also tend to cloud some of the rest of the frequency range because the highs are so overpowering.
BTW, it's no mistake that the $800 stuff was the only stuff not distorting... they want you to buy it! A speaker distorts from not enough power and/or improper crossover point, NOT too much power.