A turbo set up for $250?

[dinanm3atl]

The Iron Lemon car won on day 2 because they only did Pit stops during yellow flags.
So it was strategy not speed. I agree that there are many things that come into play. And you need to finish the race to win.
I would just like to be faster and eliminate one of the many factors.


We are using stock brakes with ducts, Carbontech endurance pads with ATE rotors? The ones with the atomic pattern cut in them.
Tires are Star Spec just like every one else..
Suspension is stock swaybars, all new stock parts. IE bushings. We did adjust spring rates a bit.
Last thing to do is replace the steering rack. It will be done with the lower subframe before the next race. Its been bent for the last 3 races.

Just saying you admit it in your first line there. Better strategy and not breaking down got them a 2nd place finish. I would just reconsider more power when you are 5-6 seconds off the other E30s running your same engine. The way you are trying to gain the time is setting up for future failures. A turbo system while not overly complex still adds more parts to the equation. It also is going to add significantly to the overall complexity of the car.

My team is still a noob and have not physically raced but we are trying to steer clear of any type of performance anything until the car finishes a full race. No 24V swap. No Turbos. No performance stuff. All stock. All rebuild. See how it does. I would work on those 5-6 seconds of time and pit stop strategy and it would seem you would be right up there.

[ForcedFirebird]

Lot's of advice in this thread! Answered your PM about the chip burning.

Don't bother with an ebay chip, RRFPR, head bolts, MLS gasket, O-Ring etc etc.

Whoever linked the blogspot, my ugly mug is in some of those pics lol.

Here's a cheap, reliable, and power-making setup - the wide-body e30 is still running the 524td mani and making 357whp@15psi on a Holset HX35, but used an upgraded Volvo turbo for 3yrs prior. It ran at 12psi with no issues, and until there was boost-creep from a WG being too small the stock 150xxx+ mile m20 held just fine. The head gasket nor the metric blues liked 21psi. The blues lifted and popped the gasket as well as breaking a rocker.

Anyways, back to the budget turbo build.

524td manifold, if you are lucky you can find them at the yards for about $10
Volvo turbo - look for one that has the BOV separate from the turbo compressor housing. A lot of Volvo guys upgraded and is a much better turbo than the stocker. I pulled on a couple months ago at the local yard, $70.

Use the I/C from that same Volvo. It's large and will easily support 250-300whp or about 15psi before the plastic end tanks begin to separate from the aluminum. Also have used these in a couple builds, got them for $27ea at the same yard.

Charge piping and down pipe, take from the same Volvo and re-configure to the e30. Yard charges me $12 if I connect all of it together with the couplers. I always try to find 2 cars worth and snake them all together.

Use an m30 AFM and mount it in front of the turbo. Local yard sells them for $50, but you can probably find them cheaper on the forums.

That put's you at $169 if you pay the same as the local yards here, seeing you are just across the state, it shouldn't be much different.

As far as tuning and fueling we have had success using 30lb/hr injectors up to 12psi on a small turbo. Look for cross-references to find injectors this size or larger. Ford Mustangs and Lightnings etc generally have good sized injectors. Basically look for any OEM turbo/supercharged cars. The local yard is expensive for injectors, but even at $6/ea, you are still talking $36 which puts your budget at $205.

You will want a wideband, but in most budget racing, you only have to count parts that are in the car for check-in. This means you just take the WB out after locking in a solid/safe tune. Go to Moates.net and purchase a blank chip ($5), chip burner ($50) and an Ostrich 2.0 Emulator ($175). The chip is the only thing that should HAVE to be claimed on your budget, so this puts you at $210 for what stays in the car and $225 out of pocket to be able to tune yourself.

[bam2002]

The Iron Lemon car won on day 2 because they only did Pit stops during yellow flags.
So it was strategy not speed. I agree that there are many things that come into play. And you need to finish the race to win.
I would just like to be faster and eliminate one of the many factors.


We are using stock brakes with ducts, Carbontech endurance pads with ATE rotors? The ones with the atomic pattern cut in them.
Tires are Star Spec just like every one else..
Suspension is stock swaybars, all new stock parts. IE bushings. We did adjust spring rates a bit.
Last thing to do is replace the steering rack. It will be done with the lower subframe before the next race. Its been bent for the last 3 races.

[dinanm3atl]

I went in to check just so I had a better idea. Your teams best time was a 1.52.9 and Ronald's was a 1.47.8(Sunday) so you are 5 seconds off but when you really look at the results you turned 60 less lap than them. It sounds like your failed distributor was more of the root cause of the finishing result. Making it down the straight the fastest will not win an endurance race. The team that finished 10th ran over a second slower than you and still finished in the Top 10.

88 Iron Lemon is the best example of this. They are slower than you but finished 23rd and then 2nd on Sunday. They were only 3 seconds off the top step on the podium. It seems like reliability is more of a concern than raw speed. Sure turning some 1.40s at Road Atlanta would make you overall faster but if you have a failure and sit in the pits/paddock you are not going to do well.

I would work on driver skill and reliability before you install a turbo. There is obviously 5 seconds or more in your car and a podium finish. E30s with M20s win and finish well in these races. That is why people hate them. However in order to win you have to finish. Just keep that in mind. A junkyard turbo system is going to open up a whole new can of worms. Simple and reliable is the most important aspect of Chump IMO.

[bam2002]

What kind of lap times were you turning at RA?

3:54 if I recall. I had one driver that has been an instructor at that track at a 3:52 or a 3:50??. We started around 4:02 for the first 10 min to learn the track.

[bam2002]

Im with dinnanm3atl, no way a $250 turbo setup is going to last 7-12 hours of hard lapping. Honestly, running only 6lbs is not going to return on investment of time to build/fab anyway, you need more speed through the corners, not the straights.

We were good in the corners. The car handles great. But I need about 30 more HP. We were getting walked in the straights after spending the last 4 turns getting past the newer V6 or V8 cars.

[dinanm3atl]

What kind of lap times were you turning at RA?

[bam2002]

Yes we could of been down on power since out engine was on its last leg.

We have lightened the car quite a bit. Ie no sunroof, inner doors cut out. 30% of the wiring removed. I am sure there is a bit more.
I do have glass molds for the hood and decklid. So we could make some really thin body panels. But Time is always an issue.

We had mechanical issues at Road Atlanta. IE alternator stopped working. I had a spare but that cost us an hour, to get towed in etc.

Yes drivers skill is a factor. 2 of us had never raced on a track with elevation changes. Being from FL we always had been on flat tracks. But we have been racing against 60% of those cars for 2 years now and 1/2 of them have gotten quite a bit faster. So we may just want to keep up with the Jones...
Out next race is at Daytona. We will have a fresh rebuild and run the 14 hour race with no Turbo to break it in. Then for Sebring I want to turbo the car. Its our home track and we can always use more power.

So im going to build an intake and have a spare ETA engine car to use to fit the parts. Then move it over to the track car.
So photos may be boring at 1st on the test mule.. they turbo race isnt untill Sept 22nd. So we have some time to get it all built.

[akorcovelos]

Im with dinnanm3atl, no way a $250 turbo setup is going to last 7-12 hours of hard lapping. Honestly, running only 6lbs is not going to return on investment of time to build/fab anyway, you need more speed through the corners, not the straights.

[dinanm3atl]

You are running an M20B25 correct? Have you thought about additional weight reduction, fresh B25 and driver skill? I ask because Ronald's Racers was running in the top 3 and had a top 3 on Saturday at Road Atlanta until a spin(admitted bone headed move trying to keep up with BioHazard) and then sped on pit lane. That car had a podium.

M20B25 has plenty of power I think to podium and potentially win. If you really think more power will lower your lap times an m50 would be a better solution than a turbo. Boost immediately sets you up for more failures. M20 is very reliable. M20 turbo can be reliable as a DD or a fun weekend toy but pounding on it for 14 hours? You might want to rethink that when to stay in budget(what is your AIV now?) you need junkyard turbos.

Some other ideas. What brakes are you using? What kind of lap times were you turning at Road Atlanta? Suspension condition? What tires? Etc.

To give you an idea of what I am getting at I would routinely sit on the bumpers of E46 M3s at Road Atlanta down the back straight. I carried more speed through Turn 7 and used less brakes and just sat with them. You can do the same on your E30 compared to the rest of competition.

[bam2002]

Here is our last race at Road Atlanta. this car was built 4 years ago for the 24 hours of Lemons races. It has had a rough life.









And this is what happens when you overheat an engine untill its burning a quart of oil an hour. But you run it any way to finish the race. We made it 13.75 hours of a 14 hour race..


Thus the rebuild and Turbo questions.

[nando]

yeah, to be honest stock manifolds modified with an adapter plate are going to be far better from a performance standpoint than the shitty TD manifold, and maybe even cheaper.

[Gary Horneck]

Try this.

http://dirte30.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

I am getting ready to try it. I have 3 turbo's sitting here from my Volvo 740 and just need a small boost for AutoX runs. Flipped stock manifold with a machined adapter plate is all they did.

[Clark954]

http://ststurbo.com/

[Clark954]

Thanks for the information.

I was reading up on O ring - blocking and that may be more than I want to do.
But good head bolts etc are a must.

We do have access to a full machine shop. One of the drivers runs a shop that specializes in Aircooled VWs. so we have welders, milling machines etc.

Ill work on building an intake, I have seen other cars that make the intake higher than normal so that 1/2 the turbo is sticking through the hood. I guess it really helps with cooling,
Any thoughts on this? I cant see any negative impact by doing this other than Rain. THe airfilter could be run out in the open or we can use a tube to get it back under the hood if there is chance of rain.


Then they also run a small intercooler either parallel to the hood and use a hood scoop to run the air or behind a headlight. 90% of the races we dont need lights. This way everything is easy to get to IE trouble shooting.
Plus we run a pretty big oil cooler up front below the bumper where most intercoolers are located.

Also there are some great threads on Chips for turbos, I see that there is mention of Fuel regulators, Is this something needed on a low boost engine?

We have a fuel cell in the car with a Fuel pump from Summit racing. Its rated 10? lbs? over stock. we did this when we added the bigger injectors.

Lastly I also have a head with a 272 cam, will it be beneficial to use the cam?

it might sound silly but most of the STS turbo setups are in the bumper, and with it being all the way back there it doesnt normally need a cooler, you can probably pick up tubing pretty cheap, and you could probably just weld the damn thing to the exhaust and then just run a pipe to your Intake manifold.

if your going under the hood, make some vents to vent out as much air as possible, you know give a 5 year old a grinder and tell him to have fun.

im guna subscribe to this thread.... post pics :hitler: