TRM Blow through tune and turbo selection

[johnjohnsons54]

So I've googled and searched a handful of forums as well as checked TRM's website and I can't seem to find a good explanation as to what the TRM blow through set up is exactly? What are it's advantages and how does it differ from the more common set ups? I'm obv a bit of a noob....please edumacate me.

Secondly, I'm pondering a turbo build for my e30 S52 swap. What are the optimal turbos I might consider to run decently at roughly 8 psi, stock compression for about 350whp (phase 1)? I'd like a turbo with quick spool characteristics that will still be effective when I decide to lower the compression with an MLS (or pistons) and run around 13psi for +/- 430whp in the future. I'm not looking to pinch pennies, and would rather choose the right turbo from the beginning.

I've read about every build I can find on the internet and every single project seems to use a different turbo!

Any input would be appreciated

[lcoleman]

Pretty sure it puts the MAF downstream of the compressor, versus a draw-through that puts it upstream. And it's just a chip tune for the stock S5x DME, I think. Sorry if this is glaringly obvious. A proper standalone EMS would be far more capable.

I'll make another blanket statement and say that a properly-sized turbo for an s52 likely won't be in it's peak efficiency range at 8psi. I am not sure how or if this effects turbo selection, sorry. I'd just find a proven setup and copy it as much as possible.

[e30leigh]

so you have a high flow fast reving motor thats good for 300hp in factory trim. 1 why turbo it?
and secondly a turbo choose for 8psi that is efficient will spool super fast. and youll loose all top end. you need to think long and hard about turbo size. id go big for the future and run it lower then its effective flow. basicly id pick my turbo to have a peak performance range of about 50hp higher then your aim. it give room to breath but will match the motor well in terms of response and flow rates.

[johnjohnsons54]

so you have a high flow fast reving motor thats good for 300hp in factory trim. 1 why turbo it?
and secondly a turbo choose for 8psi that is efficient will spool super fast. and youll loose all top end. you need to think long and hard about turbo size. id go big for the future and run it lower then its effective flow. basicly id pick my turbo to have a peak performance range of about 50hp higher then your aim. it give room to breath but will match the motor well in terms of response and flow rates.

Thanks guys. I should have phrased my OP a little differently. Ultimately I will be looking to boost my 24V into the 400+ whp range. I'm looking for a turbo that will be very efficient in this range, but might also be adequate before I open the motor up and perhaps give it a go at 8 psi to get a feel for things. Even with the compression lowered, I'm more inclined to want something with good spool and response over the most top end power.

As for why I'd want to turbo a perfectly good e30 s52 swap? I own and have owned plenty of cars with this sort of power, and while the e30 is arguably the most fun with it's handling and power to weight ratio, 300hp just doesn't me get laughing like a school girl anymore. I'm looking for a great project and to have a car that will really shove me back in the seat and go sideways at will. It's really just a fun car for me to enjoy on the weekends and I wouldn't mind spanking the odd 997 owner.

[johnjohnsons54]

Pretty sure it puts the MAF downstream of the compressor, versus a draw-through that puts it upstream. And it's just a chip tune for the stock S5x DME, I think. Sorry if this is glaringly obvious. A proper standalone EMS would be far more capable.

I'll make another blanket statement and say that a properly-sized turbo for an s52 likely won't be in it's peak efficiency range at 8psi. I am not sure how or if this effects turbo selection, sorry. I'd just find a proven setup and copy it as much as possible.

Although it's blatantly obvious to most I'm sure, that was the basic info I was looking for. Makes perfect sense lol. While I understand a standalone will ultimately make more power, I've heard a few guys say pretty good things about the TRM chip tune if you're not looking to make any more than 400-450whp.

The plug-and-play aspect as well as having somebody to call as soon as something goes wrong sounds fairly appealing as long as you're not trying to break any records. Could potentially save me some costly headaches and downtime. If I were more experienced I'd absolutely go stand alone but I'm considering the TRM tune in an effort to be realistic since this will be my first attempt at turboing a N/A motor. Things could easily change as I get a better understanding of what's involved with a megasquirt.

[Good & Tight]

A GT35R with a .63 back housing would suite your needs for 8 psi and 15psi.
Less tuning headaches would be a chip tune from TRM, their tuning package consist of injectors and MAF.
Just tell them the engine size, compression, turbo and manifold and they send you a base tune to get you running. Then make a few dyno pulls with rpm and AFR graph and they will send you a revision to make even more power.
They have done many tunes using my manifold so your in good hands with them.

[johnjohnsons54]

Thanks G&T. It's funny.......the more reading I've been doing, the more I've been leaning towards the gt35r and I hear nothing but good things about your manifold. I've come to the conclusion it will spool plenty fast enough and that I want something that's controllable.....no violent boost spikes in the middle of a corner at 75mph.

It seems like most guys piece together their own kits as opposed to spending 6 large on a trm set up? I know it's not hard to piece together the major parts like wastegates, BOV's, injectors, and gauges. It's the little miscellaneous parts and piping that have me a bit concerned.

Just thinking out loud I'm wondering if I could buy parts of the blueapplesoda kit in combination with the gt35r, good & tight manifold, and a TRM blow through tune? Perhaps the TRM tune is not even necessary.....not much info on the blueapplesoda 24V hardware/tune yet unfortunately.

Do you pay a premium for the TRM kit mostly for their experience and customer service (nothing wrong with that) or do you really get any superior/more reliable parts? They don't really list anything on their website

[lcoleman]

I would buy a complete kit if I were you. If you gain satisfaction from overcoming frustration, time, and $$, then you might consider piecing it together.

If you have to ask, don't get megasquirt. If you're unsure altogether, don't get a standalone. The mechanical side of things is complicated enough.

Having said that, if I had your car, I'd DD and track the shit out of it and be content. It's pretty much useless for anything but roll racing once you get that much power.

[johnjohnsons54]

I would buy a complete kit if I were you. If you gain satisfaction from overcoming frustration, time, and $$, then you might consider piecing it together.

If you have to ask, don't get megasquirt. If you're unsure altogether, don't get a standalone. The mechanical side of things is complicated enough.

Having said that, if I had your car, I'd DD and track the shit out of it and be content. It's pretty much useless for anything but roll racing once you get that much power.

I certainly see your point. It's for this exact reason I'm considering only running 8 psi for a while. I could always lower the compression and turn up the wick if I get used to the power.

As for the the megasquirt, the only way I'd do it is through the Dederic Motorsport 24V kit. From what I can tell, it's a fairly straight forward installation and comes with a safe base tune. I could be dead wrong, but it looks like DMS has taken care of all the difficult stuff and I would simply have to take it to a local tuner for some tweaking on the dyno.

Once you have a good tune established, is a stand alone like megasquirt likely to cause headaches?

A quote from Derek of DMS and link to his PnP EMS page....

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=204722

Here's a big update for you guys.

m42 turbo kits are coming in June, $3250. Works with or without A/C. Complete kit to the downpipe, minus exhaust and headgasket. ms2 standalone.

24v NV turbo kits are also almost ready for production, $3450. The kits include everything you'll need to boost from the filter to the downpipe, minus the exhaust and a head gasket.

As for the exhaust, I can offer a $650 3" straight pipe, ss mandrel bend, tig welded. S/h is $75 to the lower 48. Muffler, Resonators, and Catalysts are extra. MLS gasket for m50 is $230 for normal thickness. I will be using Otis' manifolds. I do need a LOCAL guy who would like a turbo kit to contact me, I will do discounted installation on their m50nv e30 so I can get some pictures of the installation.

I am still testing the VANOS ecu's, and in the mean time I have a 413 chip tune that is good up to 14psi. I would advise to wait for the standalone, unless the chiptune is the route you want to take. They are the same price, vanos, non vanos, all starting at $3450 for non-A/C kits, and $3550 for A/C Retaining kits.

Note that the A/C kits for both m20 and m50 use a smaller aux fan. It also uses a smaller intercooler. The tubing is also a little more complicated, with a few more bends.

Please PM me for options, every turbo kit is built to order. I can add or subtract parts and you deem necessary. Core fees extra.

Derek
DedericMS

[lcoleman]

Once you have a good tune established...

A few words, but it's the biggest hurdle you will face. Keep in mind that owning a shop and a dyno do not make you a tuner. Buying a real tune from a truly reputable tuner costs a good bit of money. Learning to do a solid tune yourself takes a lot of commitment.

[johnjohnsons54]

A few words, but it's the biggest hurdle you will face. Keep in mind that owning a shop and a dyno do not make you a tuner. Buying a real tune from a truly reputable tuner costs a good bit of money. Learning to do a solid tune yourself takes a lot of commitment.

All valid points. A good reason perhaps to consider going with a company who can provide a remote tune.

After doing a bunch of reading about the MS2 unit, it seems as though a megasquirt is a great option for somebody who wants to learn and constantly tinker with their hardware as well as their tune and not have to pay someone to do it. It also appears to be very frustrating if you don't know what you're doing and can be somewhat inconsistent. It seems like a DME tune would be better option for somebody who is willing to potentially pay a bit more and have something that adapts to changing conditions and works well from the beginning.....plug it in and forget about it. As much as I'd like to think I could learn how to tune a megasquirt, the reality is that a DME tune would probably be optimal at this point in my life. Even if a megasquirt could make a bit more power, anything north of 350whp will likely be more than enough for my needs in an e30. Good news is that DMS offers a chip tune and a megasquirt tune for the same price. Pretty sweet to have the choice.

Again, thanks for all the input

[johnjohnsons54]

Just thinking out loud I'm wondering if I could buy parts of the blueapplesoda kit in combination with the gt35r, good & tight manifold, and a TRM blow through tune? Perhaps the TRM tune is not even necessary.....not much info on the blueapplesoda 24V hardware/tune yet unfortunately.

website

For anybody who's interested, I've been in contact with both DMS and TRM. I've gotta say, I'm very impressed with both companies and the manner in which they've answered all of my questions. Nice to have some solid guys like this in the e30 aftermarket.

For the record, it looks like I could definitely purchase a tuneless kit from DMS and get a remote tune from TRM.

I think it might be a wicked combo for somebody like me who needs a custom tune but doesn't have a trusted local tuner and/or doesn't necessarily have the time or inclination to learn to tune with megasquirt.

Now to start saving the monies!