Possibly Leaving e30s for a bit after today (turbo gasket problems)

[whodwho]

These threads make me sad. Mainly because no matter how often they happen, someone will beat the piss out of an untuned motor and destroy it.

Im not sure why people think its ok to beat on/push a car without even verifying everything is ok in the logs?

A standalone that is plug and play is not tuned, its just got the parameters set up so all you have to do is modify the maps to fit your engine. Hopefully people aren't selling them as plug in and go setups!

Definitely not sold as a PNGO setup 8^)

It is listed as - Running MS2/Extra 3.2.4 - with startup tune - http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=202653

If people put these on a stock engine I would invest in a tuning session and provide a driving tune but who does. If there were std boosted configurations that I could base a tune on I would invest in a tune for that but what would be a std configuration. Even if a box tune was made it would be made conservative and you would benefit from the additional tuning as well.

People invest several thousand to build a setup but fail to invest several hundred to get it tuned and leave HP/dependability on the table.

I stress that additional tuning is needed and if they are to try to dial it in some on their own is preferably get the basics dialed in before going boosted or start at low loads and work up thru the loads.

You must resist the force... until tuned! 8^)

[LJ851]

Detonation is a vicious consumer of engine parts.

The first damage happens to the weakest link in the chain which happened to be your headgasket at the back three cylinders on the intake side.

Consider yourself lucky if thats all that failed and that it happened fast !

[Kozworth]

Well why would they blow both the intake side aswell? I know orings wouldn't cause detonation I am just wondering if they weren't done properly

[wazzu70]

The O-rings aren't causing the detonation....

The rear cylinders usually have issues because they tend to run hotter. In combination with that your injectors may not have full flow, or may be wired up wrong. I think its safe to assume you did not verify the injectors were working correctly before running the engine...

[Kozworth]

Well the plugs are all the tan color, which from what I know is normal combustion. The pistons across the board all looked the same. I talked to a good friend of mine, and yes while a tune would be a cause of it to blow, but its interesting how it blew on 4-5 twice. If there wasn't an issue with the cylinders i would assume the cylinders would all be under the same terms and if one was to detonate it would not always be the same one.

On this note, this is the first time the shop oringed a bmw block. I would have to inspect all the orings. Some looked a little flatter then the others, so I am not sure if they ground too deep or what. If the orings are messed up, and the deck surface seems fine, what would be the corrective action? I dont think I could really have the space to rip the engine out and replace the short block, let alone salvage the new bearings and such. Could I just pull out the orings and run it as if it was a normal block?

[Good & Tight]

After looking at the headgaskets, you are detonating for sure. High cylinder pressure spikes causes the HG to push out like that.

[93supercoupe]

And if ur still running the stock iginiton, then you need to check ur base timing

[93supercoupe]

By looking at those gaskets, that thing either had a ton of tkming or the orings arent installed right. With head gaskets like that, the plugs and tops of pistons must be showing signs of detonation

[Kozworth]

This is the first time to my knowledge. I got the head for free from a friend.. it had been sitting for a while from the looks of it. I told my friend to take it to the machine shop and get it skimmed so that its all flat, and pressure test. Yes, since I think b25s have an 8.5:1 CR? maybe I should look into a thicker gasket?

[ak-]

How many times did you shave the head? You're adding compression by doing that which means more chance of detonation.

Your wastegate has a harder time controlling boost at it's LOWEST psi during full load. Wastegates are happier at high psi's.
So, assuming everything is fine because you know you're running low psi doesn't mean things could be fine. You could be spiking/creeping hard.

Fix the car and drive it under vacuum, not going into boost, to the tuner and all will be fine.
You're not going to blow it up puttering it there even with a bad tune.

[Kozworth]

By the sounds of it you don't have a boost gauge, or at least one that's working? Since in the video you seemed to be saying you don't know how much boost that was, just that it was set at the lowest boost.

That's dangerous because you're assuming that your wastegate is working properly and/or efficiently enough to control the boost. I've seen a friends car with the boost "set to the lowest" spike up to 22psi because the manifold design didn't allow the wastegate to work well enough. He had to add a second wastegate to keep things under control.

I'd never drive a turbo build without a working boost gauge. If your laptop was working you'd be able to monitor that.

Well, thats the thing. The boost gauge does seem to work. In short.. when the idle screw was not open as much, if I blipped the throttle, the vacuum would dip from 16-20 in/mg, instead of creating more of a load and reducing vacuum. After I increased the idle screw.. it seems to read fine.

And as for the readings, I saw it go up to 10psi that time around.. even 15 at one time. I am really sure the wastegate is set for 8psi lol. But when driving as a beginner.. its hard to watch everything! Coolant temp, oil psi, boost, tach (even though I dont have one), afr, etc. In the video when it popps, it looks like it is in the 12s, and boost is hardly even there (0 psi is at about 12 oclock) I would have to say about 5psi. I am sure I would have to check into my wastegate and see why its not staying closed. Its a tial 38mm and I am pretty sure I baught it new off a r3ver

3rd gear is a higher load gear then 1-2nd if you spent the time fixing MS we would be able to help you and not speculate. for all we know you could be hitting below 100kpa in that 1-2nd and as soon as you hit 3rd went over the 100kpa (dont usually go over 100kpa N/A), but your timing is through the roof and leaner then normal. dont give up bc you popped it. specs on who you bought the ms from and what where they using it for?

Makes sense. Thats what scares me though, is granny shifting this car to its "sitting point" before it gets tuned.. since I would be in 4-5th and on the highway.

I baught it off of whodwho built for me. So i know he is a great guy and do not regret the setup one bit! I am sure things are just off and need to be fine tuned after all your guys posts.

I dont really have an issue with doing another gasket. I did two on this car, one on my moms e34, etc. Its just I am moving and dont want to dirty up the new place and really sink much money into this since I have rent. This cars taken my money for the past year and when this happens sometimes I think to let her go.

[Bullet Ride]

By the sounds of it you don't have a boost gauge, or at least one that's working? Since in the video you seemed to be saying you don't know how much boost that was, just that it was set at the lowest boost.

That's dangerous because you're assuming that your wastegate is working properly and/or efficiently enough to control the boost. I've seen a friends car with the boost "set to the lowest" spike up to 22psi because the manifold design didn't allow the wastegate to work well enough. He had to add a second wastegate to keep things under control.

I'd never drive a turbo build without a working boost gauge. If your laptop was working you'd be able to monitor that.

[euro2fast4u]

3rd gear is a higher load gear then 1-2nd if you spent the time fixing MS we would be able to help you and not speculate. for all we know you could be hitting below 100kpa in that 1-2nd and as soon as you hit 3rd went over the 100kpa (dont usually go over 100kpa N/A), but your timing is through the roof and leaner then normal. dont give up bc you popped it. specs on who you bought the ms from and what where they using it for?

[Kozworth]

First off, my ms has issues connecting to my laptop. I tried it.

And two.. if you watched the video or even read my post. The head popped under 3rd gear not really even hitting boost. Just a basic 3rd gear accelerate. Yes I did do a few pulls but It was to about 40mph you make it sound like I redlined every gear. So please read my post if your willing to put the time into helping someone figure out an issue.

[euro2fast4u]

it would be even better if you plugged your damn laptop up and monitored it for a few miles instead of beating on it as soon as you finish it. now you get to do it again, hoping you learned not to beat the piss out of it with out even reviewing either table.