Possibly Leaving e30s for a bit after today (turbo gasket problems)

[Kozworth]

Fair enough. I know that the ms was set for my injectors and 91 octane. I am sure i am not the only one who has blown gaskets. I figured it would be better then doing a war chip and afm tweaking..

[euro2fast4u]

came in here for a giggle.

"dont know what my fuel is like or what my timing is"

keep it classy

[wazzu70]

Keep in mind any head gasket or O ring wont protect against detonation. The whole point of an O ring or MLS, ect is to keep the gasket intact under high pressures. Detonation makes REALLY high pressures that no gasket is made to withstand. The gasket is a fuse, its meant to be the weak link when the system is overpressured to help save your bottom end.

The reason the car can be tuned on a dyno is you do not just make "pulls" at WOT. A dyno for tuning is a load bearing dyno that allows the tuner to hold the car at say 2000rpm and 60kpa. The tuner can then adjust the fueling for proper AFR and can adjust timing for MBT or on the safe side of knock...whichever comes first.

On the dyno you move through the rev/load range slowly so there is not much chance in harming the engine.

Hopefully the people making these PnP kits make sure people understand the car absolutely needs to be tuned before driving hard (even quickly). Also from the sounds of it, even the base map is not well done/conservative enough.

If you put in a new HG and drive the car like a granny you should be OK unless the base tune is horrible. Its also important to note even the best tune will have issues if all your sensors are not working correctly. Ensure your hardware is working properly before driving or taking the car to be tuned. The best tuner cant make up fir a hacked engine.

[Kozworth]

Well, its mostly my fault. But first time It blew it was 100% my issue since the turbo setup was not in key. This time, I know the pnp was tuned for my basic setup and that it would be fine tuned, but realized its not perfect. I assumed that it would be ok for a few mild pulls. In both cases the gasket blew under a long pull under 3rd gear, assuming the load was very great on the engine.

Here is what I had discovered today.

Left gasket is a klinger gasket which popped the 1st time, and the one on the right is an oem goetze that popped this time. Cylinders on klinger that blew are 4/5 while goetze are 4/5/6

Klinger

Goetze



Under inspection, the block does not seem to have any visible cracks or issues with the copper oringing. The head during first gasket was not used this time, and this head was skimmed and pressure tested. This head does not have any visible cracks.

All plugs have the tan color to them. They are the m20 oem replacement plugs. Since they are already used, i figured I might as well get cooler plugs.

I really do not know anything about dynos, but what I am confused is the car must be ran on a dyno to get a data log and figure out how to tune the car. If my car blew under a steady 3rd gear pull, hardly hitting boost, then whats stopping the gasket from failing on a dyno? It seems that if I towed the car and had it on a dyno that since she popp'ed two so easily that it would be pretty certain that a 3rd would pop.

Even if I did the gasket, would there be an issue with me granny shifting the car to its new location? I just do not even have the money for the car to get tuned at this point, but the car must leave the location its at by the 1st.
Besides that, why would 4-5 cylinders seem to blow first? anything to check? The head gasket isn't too bad of a job, its just I am getting lost for inspiration for this project and at the moment I would much rather get an NA project rather then risk this car and dump easily another 600 into a tune.

[wazzu70]

These threads make me sad. Mainly because no matter how often they happen, someone will beat the piss out of an untuned motor and destroy it.

Im not sure why people think its ok to beat on/push a car without even verifying everything is ok in the logs?

A standalone that is plug and play is not tuned, its just got the parameters set up so all you have to do is modify the maps to fit your engine. Hopefully people aren't selling them as plug in and go setups!

[LJ851]

I have no clue what the timing was.

I was guessing this.

Timing (and AFR) makes or breaks a turbo setup.

Inspect and regasket the head if all is ok. Then take it to a tuner that knows what they are doing and have build a nice, safe tune so you can DD the car with confidence.

Remember, you are on the steep end of the learning curve, it does get easier if you pay attention.

[Good & Tight]

As others have mentioned, you need to get it tuned. Driving normal to get to a dyno will not blow the HG. Doing WOT pulls without knowing were your afr's or timing is at will blow the HG instantly.

[kamotors]

bad/overly aggressive tune can blow the gasket within a couple pulls. for example I got 1 4th gear on my over aggressive tune before the gasket popped......but it was really fast so it was worth it lol.

it only takes a day to pull the head and replace the gasket and is no reason to get rid of the car.

[Kozworth]

Hopefully I will be pulling the head today. I will be looking for any similarities in the blown gaskets.

I read a lot on dentonation... I feel like its a more plausible idea that I got the wrong plugs as opposed to a faulty oring from a shop that does this regularly.

[93supercoupe]

you defenitly need to be checking ur plugs, and you need to know where ur timing is. And for the short amount of time you can see the WB o2, it was over 12.5.

I typically go for 11.5-11.7 on boosted pump gas cars. NA i go for 13-13.5WOT

As far as popping gaskets that quick, i would look into the way the orings are layed in, or if they sit too low or too high in certian areas. And of course check for the noraml 885 head cracks

Regardless of all that, timing is everything with any tune. download tunerstudio and connect to ur MS and see where your at. There are sooooooo many holset setups out there that u could copy someones timing map and be really close, then just read ur plugs to verify.

But remember that too little of timing can be just as dangerous as too much, so dont go in and just pull 20degress and call it good. Read ur plugs.

[MF DOOM]

driving an m42 misfiring e36 everyday. :(

Theres your problem.





Im in over my head 100% of the time with my car. :up:


No data logs? What do your plugs look like? Any damage to pistons last time this happened? Either way I would definitely get the car to a tuner. It would be near impossible to tune a car without being with the car. Every engine is different. So take a day and throw a new head gasket on'er and get it tuned

[Kozworth]

detonation.

It really sounds like you might be in over your head.

I am in over my head. I was before I even got this project started. However, it was my first engine rebuild/turbo project, not to mention first project in general. Everyone has to start somewhere.

As for detonation... I know that the afr was rich and I was running 91. So the only issue I know would be too advanced timing. I have no clue what the timing was. I guess it could have been detonating and I cant hear since its open downpipe... can you hear it in the video?

[LJ851]

detonation.

It really sounds like you might be in over your head.

[Kozworth]

Here is an interesting video of today. However, DISREGARD MY STUPIDNESS. Boost at the lowest.. I Just didnt want to get into explaining that the wg was not hooked up to the mbc so it was set at 8psi.

I am using arps that I got brand new. Maybe there is a different torque spec for arps? But from what I read, its just the same as oem. 22ftlbs 90 90. Ask me how I know.. ive done a few head gaskets yet this one does not want to ever stay.

As for the tune.. Could be pushing it. I mean, the tach still doesnt work or speedo. However, in the video, and much like the first time the gasket popped, it seems when the car is in 3rd and steadily being pushed something goes. But reving the piss out of 1st and 2nd doesnt seem to phase it.

Also, look at the wideband during my 3rd gear pull. Its super rich, im glad my friend filmed that. Also, the rev at the end, I didnt do that, it was the car itself somehow. When the video ends, I am basically in the middle of saying "something broke"because I saw the battery light on as if the car had stalled out. However, it was not like my first blown gasket, there was hardly any smoke and it seems coolant all over the body as opposed to in the intake tubing and whatnot.

http://s912.photobucket.com/user/akoz96/media/076F53E2-B49C-4DBA-A565-62A25F8D02BB-1396-0000020E688C1E2F_zps8ae25bf4.mp4.html

[ak-]

Sucks. Did you say you do or don't have your gauges wired up? If so, what were the AFRs on boost and what boost level is it set at?

To answer or give insight to your questions:
1. Can't stop physics man. If something's wrong, something is just wrong. Are you using Metric Blues? Re-used from previous build?
2. Whodwho pretunes your MS to your injector sizing so you can get to your tuner and putter around in town, not to pin the throttle everywhere! My friend's N/A 2.7i has a base tuned map and it idles and drives nicely, but is questionably lean WOT after 4800 RPM according to the AFR gauge.
3. Turbo systems are simple. As long as the engine is healthy, put together properly, and tuned conservatively nothing should go wrong.

Don't give up. I've been fed up to the point of wanting to crush my car, but everything can always be figured out.