From knowing nothing to having a Thunderbird supercharger on an m20b27i

[Ether-D]

So now I'm waiting on two things to be shipped. My aluminum P/S pulley spacer (made by thatphysicsguy from r3v) and "Engine Management Advanced Tuning by Greg Banish". Thanks for the suggestions Cleanasse30 and Kvasi. It should arrive today.

I now need to decide on an o2 sensor and controller. Suggestions?

I really want to tie the read-out for the air/fuel into the service indicator lights somehow. I think I read that GeorgeGraves did this at some point, but I don't remember. At worst I thought I'd just get one of the ones that has lights instead of a digital readout and retro-fit it into the SI lights location.

[george graves]

I now need to decide on an o2 sensor and controller. Suggestions?

I really want to tie the read-out for the air/fuel into the service indicator lights somehow. I think I read that GeorgeGraves did this at some point, but I don't remember. At worst I thought I'd just get one of the ones that has lights instead of a digital readout and retro-fit it into the SI lights location.

Innovate WB are way better then the rest, only cause of their heater profile they use on their sensors. Someone worked hard on that. It protects your sensor.

Once your done tuning with a laptop, you can buy the gauge I sell. What I sell is for you to keep an eye on your AFR - not to turn with it. I make that very clear.

Although, you should have one from the get go, and trust the laptop, and get use to the gauge.

[Ether-D]

So George, you do still sell the SI air/fuel gauge? That's great. It's on the list then. I fricking love stuff like that.
Also thanks for your input on a wideband.

[Ether-D]

I figured why wait. So the intercooler is getting a little deserved attention. It's a solid copper and brass heat exchanger made for cooling computer processors. It's 5 1/2" x 17 1/2" x1 1/2". It fits really snuggly inside the manifold.

[Ether-D]

In! I need to make the plate to cover the inlet/outlet, but that bitch is in there.

[thatphysicsguy]

That's a pretty novel idea fitting that computer heat exchanger in there. Is it designed to run at similar temps to what it would see in the manifold?

Also how does the manifold flow? I bet as you gradually improve the build you can get a fair amount of hp from this once it's nicely optimized.

[Ether-D]

Honestly, I don't have any idea what temps it'll see in there. My guess is upper 100's? Idk. Of all of the heat exchangers, this one was made to be most efficient at a high volume of air. Something like 450+cfm.

I also don't know how the manifold flows, but under pressure, I'm hoping a good amount of air will get into those cylinders.

And I better get a fair amount of HPs!:hitler:

Thanks again Alex (thatphysicsguy) for making my P/S pulley spacer.

[MaxBell]

Got a link to that heat exchanger?

[Ether-D]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Koolance-Radiator-3x140mm-Triple-140mm-30-FPI-Copper-HX-CU1403V-Radiator-/251407453582?pt=US_Water_Cooling&hash=item3a890d4d8e

[Victell]

Clever idea for a heat exchanger. Two things:

Not sure if a non-automotive heat exchanger will stand up to the vibration of being bolted to an engine. Hopefully it wont leak. If it does, liquid is going straight into the engine and will probably hydrolock it.

Also, paint acts as a minor insulator so heat exchangers are more efficient without it. Next time maybe strip it off.

[Ether-D]

We'll see. This is all an experiment.

That coating supposedly helps something. Maybe it just stops the copper from oxidizing. It did have a purpose though.

[george graves]

Clever idea for a heat exchanger.

We'll see. This is all an experiment.

Well, not to crap on your idea, but something tells me that it won't work. If you really want to know you could install a temp sensor before and after it, and see if there is a temp drop in the air flow.

But just a little "back of the envelope" calculation is that a PC water cooler is made to dissipate heat from a CPU and Video card. (The highest end computer uses something like a 1000-1200 watt power supply, and of course not all of that goes into the CPU or Video card, it goes into the hard drive, fans, ect....blah, blah, blah....anyways - let just say the cooler is good for 1000 watts)

IRRC 1000 watt is about 1 horse power, give or take.

So being that a turbo car "stage 1" car with out a intercooler, can up it's efficiency by 20-40 Hp by adding an intercooler (with out changing boost) tells me that either the radiators for a PC are way over-sized (maybe) or that it's wishful thinking to think you're going to get a temp drop across that PC radiator anything like you would with a normal air-to-air or Air-to-water intercooler made for a car. I just don't think it has the thermal capacity. Just my 2 cents.

But keep going - I love where this thread is headed! Good work!

[Ether-D]

I don't think you are crapping on the idea. Feedback is why forums exist.

This whole project is wishful thinking. I just think some of the wishes will come true. I don't think that this intercooler will work as well as others. But after scouring the web for days, this was the only heat exchanger option that fit inside the space I had allotted for the manifold and was readily available.

I also thought of having two temp senders, but I decided not to spend the extra money to (maybe) just find out that it's not really doing anything. Cause that would double suck. But I will eventually. Cause I'll have to know...

Honestly, I don't think I'll be running the m90 hard enough to even need it. I really just wanted to be the guy that made a manifold-integrated-intercooler for an m20.

All that aside, the exchanger that I got, was sort of in the middle of the road, size wise. They make ones three times this size, and they make ones 1/3 this size for p/c cooling. I really just bought the one that would fit and I'm hoping for the best.

[The Dark Side of Will]

If you really want to know you could install a temp sensor before and after it, and see if there is a temp drop in the air flow.

But just a little "back of the envelope" calculation is that a PC water cooler is made to dissipate heat from a CPU and Video card. (The highest end computer uses something like a 1000-1200 watt power supply, and of course not all of that goes into the CPU or Video card, it goes into the hard drive, fans, ect....blah, blah, blah....anyways - let just say the cooler is good for 1000 watts)

IRRC 1000 watt is about 1 horse power, give or take.

What a computer needs and what the hardcore overclockers run are two VERY different worlds.
I'll back you up on the temp sensors, though.
For the record, I think his heat exchanger is actually bigger than what's used by a lot of the guys who modify the GM 3800 V6 which had the M90 as OE.

So being that a turbo car "stage 1" car with out a intercooler, can up it's efficiency by 20-40 Hp by adding an intercooler (with out changing boost) tells me that either the radiators for a PC are way over-sized (maybe) or that it's wishful thinking to think you're going to get a temp drop across that PC radiator anything like you would with a normal air-to-air or Air-to-water intercooler made for a car. I just don't think it has the thermal capacity. Just my 2 cents.

That's not the right way to calculate the effectiveness of an intercooler. You need the mass flow and pre/post temperatures.
The crankshaft horsepower difference between intercooled and non-intercooled is *MUCH* greater than the heat "output" of the intercooler.

But after scouring the web for days, this was the only heat exchanger option that fit inside the space I had allotted for the manifold and was readily available.

That's the way a lot of engineering happens.

I also thought of having two temp senders, but I decided not to spend the extra money to (maybe) just find out that it's not really doing anything.

Even if you're not going to instrument it right away, *AT LEAST* weld in bungs to accept sensors at a later date. Put pipe plugs in them until you're ready to install the sensors. Bungs are cheap and you're already doing a bunch of welding.

Did you get my PM?

[Ether-D]

Thanks for the encouragement.
I did get your pm (about the autorotor).

Since this is 1/4" plate, I shouldn't need bungs, right? The welder said I could just tap the plate and it would be fine (in theory).