What are teh best ways to reach my power goals?

[fiftytakedowns]

my current goals right now are to get my turbo project where I want it to be. My goals are to run 21 lbs, or roughly 270 HP. I was reading pinepig's blog and saw that he is running the MLS headgasket with stock used bolts (hes running 24 lbs, and that seems like the most cost-effective way to run big boost. some people have been doing ARPS with stock headgaskets too.
You know if you could install ARPS without pulling head?
Right now Im running about 5-9 lbs of boost, and it pulls, but I feel like there is much more potential, (it seems like it is choking out up top) or maybe its out of the stock cam powerband?

Maybe the Junkyard turbo Im using is just not efficient at all.... and it;s causing me to lose a bunch of power. It does need a rebuild.. Or maybe I need 3 inch exhaust from turbo back.

Im trying to get the most torque/ power wihtout revving the crap out of the turbo motor 6.5 Rev limit. so Would cams/ headwork, ITBS? or more boost be the key to reaching the power goals?]

My Setup:

m10 - 1.8 Callaway turbo Motor Now on Megasquirt/ Ford EDIS distributorless ignition. M30 Throttle body.

Running a garret T3 turbo, not sure what car it's off of.

boost bros manifold with an external wastegate. and a big intercooler.

[Jaxx_]

Are you looking for 270whp or 270bhp? Either way, 3" exhaust is the way to go, anymore and you could potentially lose power on a small turbo.

You could get more lift on your cams, 3/5/7 angle valve job, porting&polish, all of which could help a TON. I'm not sure how well these heads flow stock though, I can't imagine too well, SOHC 8V ftl... I think ITBs will be a bit overkill, and no where near cheapest solution to the issue.

tuning your timing with a turbo setup will help as well. You could go as far as doing spark plug indexing.

What's the AR on the turbo?
When does it spool?
How much boost are you running now?
AFRs?
Is your intercooler appropriately sized? Too much and you've got a pressure drop working against you.
Any restrictions before the turbo? You should be looking for the coldest air possible, but don't go crazy with piping. taking off the highbeam and running a cone filter right there would be perfect.

I did some research and for me, it seems a TD04 15G or 16T is perfectly sized for the 1.8, with a PR of about 2.0 or so.
Here's a good tool: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/ I plan on doing a track car setup and a goal of about 200-250bhp.

I'm sure there's a few things I missed, but that should be the main things. Tuning is going to yield the most power after you've got a proper turbo/IC setup.


OT: any issues with the boost bros manifold? I'm going to be doing a turbo setup too (MSnS, EDIS) and one of the things I'm worried about is the manifold setup. I heard the Boost Bros manifold doesn't clear on the 318i M10s or something?

[fiftytakedowns]

Ill report back with my turbo stats, but my turbo spools up at 3k, im running 7lbs and its roughly 11 across the board through the rev range at WOT.

AT first I had fitment issues witht he boost bros, but then they sent me a new one, and It worked fine.

I dont know too much about tuning, so that is definitley some power being lossed as well. Im getting alot of blowby, but maybe I have too much oil in the sucker.

[Jaxx_]

Ill report back with my turbo stats, but my turbo spools up at 3k, im running 7lbs and its roughly 11 across the board through the rev range at WOT.

AT first I had fitment issues witht he boost bros, but then they sent me a new one, and It worked fine.

I dont know too much about tuning, so that is definitley some power being lossed as well. Im getting alot of blowby, but maybe I have too much oil in the sucker.

you need to run a restrictor at the turbo oil feed inlet, otherwise you're gonna be blowing turbo seals like no tomorrow. Make sure to have the oil dump line a lot larger than the inlet. Less pressure means more area to have equal flow.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a solid 10whp from ignition tuning, at the minimum. Spend the money on some dyno time and it could be well worth it.

[fiftytakedowns]

I got a restrictor on it. I mean the valve cover breather hose is really spewing some oil vapors.

I found out the turbo is a Garrett T3, TB0339, .48 A/R, 40 Trim

I have no idea how to read this graph, but it doesnt look good.

[Jaxx_]

Time to run a catch can? :P


so onto this turbo graph thingy...

see that 5th dot? that's where your turbo really starts pushing hot air and your intercooler can't really do enough about it.

See if you can find a bigger AR for that T3 and you could be in business. The turbo itself is too small for your application. You're not running as much boost as it shows with that plotted red line, but ideally, you want to be a little bit left of the center circle and just left of it when you reach full boost, and inside it when the motor revs up to redline.


Here's a pretty well matched turbo to the motor given. If you see the pressure ratio is about 2.2, which would be about 17-18psi of boost.

Pressure ratio is
atmosphere+boost/atmosphere.

[fiftytakedowns]

do you think that because the turbo is so small that it is causing the motor to choke? It really feels like torque drops after 4.5K RPM

[Jaxx_]

do you think that because the turbo is so small that it is causing the motor to choke? It really feels like torque drops after 4.5K RPM

yep. that's exactly it. Your turbo falls on it's face. Remember that to get power, you want to rev high with torque. You probably have enough torque to be close to your power goals, but if it falls off before you get past 5252 rpm, well, you won't have too much HP.

[fiftytakedowns]

yep. that's exactly it. Your turbo falls on it's face. Remember that to get power, you want to rev high with torque. You probably have enough torque to be close to your power goals, but if it falls off before you get past 5252 rpm, well, you won't have too much HP.

looks like it is time to look for a new turbo!

Theres a couple new ones on EBAY...

is there a certain boundaries in which I should shop through? like what trim levels, and what AR should I look for?

there are a couple Ebay brands that are pretty cheap wiht bigger turrrbos than mine that look appealing. 150 bucks for a new turbo is nto bad. a couple .48A/R 50 trims on there.. Would that be a good size?

[Jaxx_]

looks like it is time to look for a new turbo!

Theres a couple new ones on EBAY...

is there a certain boundaries in which I should shop through? like what trim levels, and what AR should I look for?

there are a couple Ebay brands that are pretty cheap wiht bigger turrrbos than mine that look appealing. 150 bucks for a new turbo is nto bad. a couple .48A/R 50 trims on there.. Would that be a good size?

Well, you can't go too big. 1.8L isn't much to push a turbo, so if you get something too big it won't spool, and you'll be having a similar issue, except you won't make power at all!

I would check on honda forums and see what those 1.6/1.8 guys are doing for power around your goals. If you have to choose big or small, I'd say bigger, because I think it's always better to run a bit less boost than push a turbo past it's efficiency range. Just me though, a smaller turbo will spool faster, obviously.

AR depends on the turbo, but remember that the higher the AR #, the longer it takes to spool. If you choose between a 1.0 AR and a .50 AR, the .50 will spool faster, but run out of breath sooner(your problem now).

[fiftytakedowns]

Well, you can't go too big. 1.8L isn't much to push a turbo, so if you get something too big it won't spool, and you'll be having a similar issue, except you won't make power at all!

I would check on honda forums and see what those 1.6/1.8 guys are doing for power around your goals. If you have to choose big or small, I'd say bigger, because I think it's always better to run a bit less boost than push a turbo past it's efficiency range. Just me though, a smaller turbo will spool faster, obviously.

AR depends on the turbo, but remember that the higher the AR #, the longer it takes to spool. If you choose between a 1.0 AR and a .50 AR, the .50 will spool faster, but run out of breath sooner(your problem now).

Are there ways to find out what else is going on with a Datalog graph. I Dont see the exhaust temps or intake temps increasing, and like you said the turbo is just producing heat.... ( I do have a nice intercooler, and large piping.)
I uploaded a brief datalog graph showing whats going on during a two gear pull.

I obviously need a different wastegate spring :/ 6 psi Boooo

[LowR3V'in]

Are you happy with your final tune?
11.2 is ultra rich for no good reason. Is your spark
dyno tuned? You can safely ramp up timing a good amount after peak torque
to keep the power going but it looks like it's all the same across the range.

I know you're not looking for advice but I'm just curious.

[fiftytakedowns]

Are you happy with your final tune?
11.2 is ultra rich for no good reason. Is your spark
dyno tuned? You can safely ramp up timing a good amount after peak torque
to keep the power going but it looks like it's all the same across the range.

I know you're not looking for advice but I'm just curious.

I have the spark ramped up on my newest tune, there is still not much of a difference in top end power, though.
I am definitely looking for advice though. I am a megasquirt learner. I get the basics, and how it works, but I im still DEFINiltey at the bottom in terms of knowing its complete ability to tune and change a car. Im still expirementing with the tune.

I just uploaded a picture of my spark map right now.

I just want the car to produce more boost :( guhh, my wastegate is a bitch to take off too.

[Jaxx_]

I just want the car to produce more boost :( guhh, my wastegate is a bitch to take off too.

you can run a manual boost controller. http://www.3barracing.com/ here's a quality inexpensive controller, but you can pick one up anywhere. A crappy boost controller will lead to spikes though. be careful on your first pull when it's hooked up. otherwise, say goodbye rods, pistons, whatever else that you can think of. If it's backwards your wastegate won't open.

I Dont see the exhaust temps or intake temps increasing, and like you said the turbo is just producing heat.... ( I do have a nice intercooler, and large piping.)

Hot air, as you know, is less dense than cool air. The problem is, you're not getting as much air volume as you could be into the cyls with that turbo at high RPM. From what I understand, EGTs shouldn't be effected too much by IATs. I didn't see IATs on the datalog, but I could be missing something?

[LowR3V'in]

Start by using 12afr, 11.2 is ridiculous :)