Do i need a new flywheel (replacing clutch)?

[Alpinweiße30]

I took some 320 grit sandpaper and scuffed the flywheel surface by hand. As long as the flywheel surface isn't burned or scored, this method will and has worked fine.

So, save your money and time-just use some sandpaper on the old flywheel and you should be fine.

That works for me!

[Eric Giles]

ETA flywheels are definitely true twin-mass flywheels with two metal surfaces that held together with a spring/rubber combination. I've pulled one myself. Another tidbit of info...

Luk/Sachs shows they have a twin mass flywheel for the ETA cars-and they do, BUT-they no longer make the ones with the metal 'pin' or block that the reference sensor needs to read to run properly. I found this out a couple of years ago and it caused me a great deal of wasted time before I double checked and found that the new flywheel didn't have that piece of metal. After calling Luk US headquarters and talking to the head guys there, they did some research and verified they no longer made the dual-mass flywheel with the reference sensor pin, and at the time there were none in their inventory.

Luckily, I hadn't thrown away the old flywheel, so I did what I normally do-I took some 320 grit sandpaper and scuffed the flywheel surface by hand. As long as the flywheel surface isn't burned or scored, this method will and has worked fine.

So, save your money and time-just use some sandpaper on the old flywheel and you should be fine.

[StereoInstaller1]

Gotta love that...I have seen 3 E30 flywheels and 2 were as pictured.

[Rigmaster]

I have never seen this rubber part you talk about in the twin mass eta flywheel, so I'm having trouble believing that it exists.

Got any hard proof that a the twin mass flywheel is anything more than a big hunk of metal that weighs 2x as much as a single mass????


I know there are some other flywheels that DO have 2 separate parts with rubber between them to absorb shock, but I am fairly sure that is NOT the case with the eta Twin mass flywheel.


Discuss amongst yourselves- I really would like to get to the bottom of this.


;)



EDIT:

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20402

Now, this looks like it IS 2 separate pieces, but it's got springs that buffer the pulses, not rubber (though I guess there is probably some rubber in there so it's not metal to metal).

I'll just say that I've NEVER pulled a flywheel like this out of a car, and I've parted/worked on a BUNCH of E30's. I am waffling on my statement that this doesn't exist- but I'll just say I've never seen it with my own eyes. ;)

What I consider to be a "twin mass" eta flywheel is simply a heavy-ass 1 piece flywheel- the weight of the flywheel was designed to keep the engine revving and make it smooth. This is different than the single mass flywheel, and what I would call the "Dual mass" flywheel as seen in the pics at the E30tech link above.



I'd really like for someone to confirm or deny this.

[StereoInstaller1]

well if you insist...or are you telling me this just because you want to get rid of it? but seriously PM me with price and we can figure out shipping and such.

No, I would rather not sell it, nor do I wanna ship it. See if you can find one local, I will be 4th option, OK?

How does $100 + shipping sound? I have no clue what flywheels are worth.

[browntown]

If this is your only car, you're not up to the motronic swap-aroo, just replace the clutch and leave the fly wheel alone. If its not broke don't fix it. Ideally though you would get a single mass flywheel with the reference sensors

[Alpinweiße30]

well if you insist...or are you telling me this just because you want to get rid of it? but seriously PM me with price and we can figure out shipping and such.

[StereoInstaller1]

I think you should buy the one that is sitting in my garage, unless someone else has one for you who is closer (shipping is gonna be a bitch).

Anyone know a fair price for a flywheel?

[Alpinweiße30]

well the problem is, I don't have $800 to drop on a flywheel alone. I got the whole car for $800. I'm going to be selling my other vehicle and this is going to become my DD. This job needs to get done in the next 2 weeks or I'm SOL on a car and getting to work. Can i buy a used flywheel or will it end up being the same thing? Can i get away without having it resurfaced? I simply cannot afford $800 for a new one. This does not need to last forever, just for a while, so we can get some money saved up (just had a baby, daycare is expensive, and trying to sell a house we owe more for than we bought it for. Bought it for $127,900 and it's "worth" ~$107,000).

[StereoInstaller1]

OK, before this gets out of hand...you do need to replace your flywheel, but not because of the reasons above.

You have a "dual mass" flywheel on your ETA. What this means is 2 things:

1) you have sensor magnets built into the flywheel. The crank signal sensors detect them spinning and make your motor run. You MUST have those sensors the way your car is now.

2) you will have a bitch of a time finding anyone to resurface your flywheel. Dual mass means just that: there are 2 hunks of flywheel looking metal, held together by rubber. The rubber can/does deteriorate, thus making your flywheel junk, if not 20 pounds of spinning junk, spinning at 4500RPM...with metal teeth on the edge. If you think most table saws spin slower than that, you are right. Table saws don't have 20 pounds of spinning mass, either.

All of that metal makes cutting them all nice and smooth a real bitch. Basically, it makes a half hour job into a 3 hour job AND it can be dangerous, if the rubber has broken down...which you can't really see.

As I said, most shops will not do dual mass flywheels.

So, choices? Change your motor to Motronic 1.1/1.3 and use a front trigger wheel. This would be new injectors, a new motor harness/ECU/chip and is most definitely a worthwhile upgrade...but stupid without the B25 head/intake manifold etc.

OR

Find a single mass (early ETA only) flywheel that has the sensors and is single mass.

Before you ask: yes, you could use that same flywheel on a budget stroke too (the Motronic 1.1/1.3 setup) if you wanted.

[Alpinweiße30]

I either read somewhere or was told on another forum that i should replace the bolts, they are pretty inexpensive so its that that big of a deal. as for the shifter i saw this DIY Restoring a Sloppy Shifter and those are the parts it has listed. I know it needs to be done because the shifter rubs a hole in the boot when i put it into reverse.

[CorvallisBMW]

You shouldn't need new bolts, I think you can re-use the old ones. Unless they're stretch-bolts? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Pretty sure you can just re-use them like any other bolt, put some loktite on and go. Other than that it looks pretty good, you're really going all out on this with all new shifter parts!

[Alpinweiße30]

Does this list look right?

07-11-9-919-939-M9
Pressure Plate Bolt -
Brand: Genuine BMW
(4) $4.50

11-22-2-243-051-M9
Flywheel Bolt, 12x50mm, E36 BMW, 1992-99 -
Brand: Genuine BMW
(8)$36.00

21-51-1-202-659-M200
Pivot Pin for Throw-out Bearing Release Lever, 318i (1984-85), 318i/is/iC
Does this list look right?


(1991), 325/e/es/i/is/iC/iX (1984-91), M3 (1987-91) -
Brand: MTC
(1)$1.25

21-51-1-204-327-M9
Spring for Throw-out Bearing Release Lever, 318i (1984-85), 318i/is/iC (1991), 325/e/es/i/is/iC/iX (1984-91), M3 (1987-91) -
Brand: Genuine BMW
(1)$2.50

23-12-1-220-619-M30
Manual Transmission Input Shaft Seal (35 x 52 x 7), E12 528i (from 9/79); E30 325/e/es, 325i/is/iC/iX, M3; E28 528e, 533i, 535i/is, M5; E34 525i, 535i, M5; E24 633CSi (from 9/80), 635CSi, M6, 635CSi/M635CSi Euro; E23 733i (from 9/80), 735i; E32 735i -
Brand: Elring Klinger
(1)$5.25

21-21-1-223-546-M38
Clutch Kit for Twin Mass Flywheel, 325/e/es (from 05/86)
Brand: Sachs
(1)$256.75

PEL-TOL-CABW
Clutch Alignment Tool (Spline count = 10; Pilot diameter = 11.9 mm; Spline diameter = 28.5 mm), Fits BMW M10, M20, M30 engines with 12mm ID pilot bearings only
(1)$8.45

11-21-1-709-681-M40
Pilot Bearing, Ball Type -
Brand: INA
(1)$6.25


Shifter bushing refresh:

23-41-1-466-134-M200
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Dowel Pin for Shift Rod Joint
Brand: MTC
(1)$1.25

25-11-7-501-309-M200
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Shift Rod Joint, Standard Transmission, 318i (1984-85), 325/e/es/i/is/iC/iX (From 6/86 thru 08/89)
Brand: MTC
(1)$15.50

25-11-7-571-899-M9
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Shift Rod Circlip at Shift Rod Joint and Shift Lever, 318i (1984-85), 318i/is/iC (1991), 325/e/es/i/is/iC/iX (1984-91), M3 (1987-91), E36 3 Series, All (1992-99), 530i (E34), 540i (E34), Each
Brand: Genuine BMW
(1)$1.25

23-41-1-466-110-M9
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Ball Cup Bushing for Shift Lever Upper
Brand: Genuine BMW
(1)$10.75

23-41-1-666-133-BOE
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Shift Lever Rubber Buffer Ring, Inside Shift Lever Assembly, 318i (1984-86)
Brand: Genuine BMW
(1)$7.00

25-11-1-220-228-BOE
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Shift Lever Rubber Cap, Inside Shift Lever Assembly, 318i (1984-86)
Brand: Genuine BMW
(1)$4.50

25-11-1-207-744-M9
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Lower Ball Cup Bushing, 320i/is (1976-83), Each
Brand: Genuine BMW
(1)$5.25

25-11-1-221-243-M213
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: O-Ring for Shift Rod Joint Standard Transmission, 318i (1984-85), 318i/is/iC (1991), 325/e/es/i/is/iC/iX (1984-91), M3 (1987-91)
Brand: D P H
(2)$1.50

25-11-1-220-199-M9
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Shift Rod Spacer Shim, 10.2 X 16 X 0.65, BMW, As Needed, Each
Brand: Genuine BMW
(2)$2.00

25-11-1-208-580-M270
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Shift Tower Mount, 318i (1984-85), 325/e/es (thru 05/86), 633CSi (09/82-84),
Brand: Corteco
(2)$23.50

25-11-1-209-078-BOE
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Shift Rod Spacer, 2 Per Car, 320i/is (1976-83), Each
Brand: Corteco
(1)$1.00

25-11-1-203-682-M9
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Tension Bushing for Shift Rod Coupling
Brand: Genuine BMW
(1)$2.25

25-11-1-434-194-M9
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Rubber Buffer (Sponge) for Shift Rod Joint at Transmission, 318i (1984-85), 318i/is/iC (1991), 325/e/es/i/is/iC/iX (1984-91), M3 (1987-91), BMW E36 3-series all (1992-99)
Brand: Genuine BMW
(1)$2.25

07-11-9-932-863-BOE
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Selector Rod Circlip, Each
Brand: Genuine BMW
(1)$0.25

25-11-1-204-422-M9
Kit PEL-SKSBE30-03N: Buffer Stop for Shift Tower, each, E30 3-Series 318i (1984-85), 325/e/es (thru 05/86), E28 5-Series 528e/533i, E24 6-Series 633CSi (from 09/80), 635 CSi (thru 08/85)
Brand: Genuine BMW
(1)$9.75


Total: $408.95

[CorvallisBMW]

I wouldn't worry about replacing the clutch master/slave unless there's something wrong with them. Just bleed the lines. If they ever do go bad, it's not like they're hard to swap out, and you don't have to pull the tranny to do them or anything. I'd replace the pilot bearing, TO bearing and maybe the rear main depending on how many miles you have on the original.

[blacksport325]

Hah, if only you were around Raleigh...but let me know how it works out, i'm looking for a used one, i'll get my flywheel resurfaced but I dont need a brand new clutch, this one lasted over 220k miles from what it looks like.