M20 Injectors - Why use m50?

[MaksV]

What would you say if I wanted to take advantage of the 4-hole designs, but I'm running a stock ETA motor? If you sell anything that could work, let me know.

Well I will summarize here what i sent you via PM. The only upgrade I can think of is the injectors from certain early gen Porsches (944s I believe). They have 19# low impedance units inthe 4 cylinders.

I strongly recommend a rebuild for a stock ETA. You are not going to find any more power there I am afraid.

Maksim

[Timp]

Honestly for the ETA I either recommend a set of 19# type 3s to go with yuor 885 head swap (and all the "I" electronics that come with) - or a rebuild of the stock injectors. The ETA injectors actually flow pretty much the same as the M50 units.

What would you say if I wanted to take advantage of the 4-hole designs, but I'm running a stock ETA motor? If you sell anything that could work, let me know.

[MaksV]

Thank you very much for your explanation. That was helpful. Again, not to hijack this thread but would swapping in the mentioned type III injectors into an ETA interfere with flow rate? Is this just a matter of plug and play or would any fine adjustments be needed? Any info appreciated!

There is a final matter to consider. The ETA run a low impedance system. The injectors I carry, and a lot of the "common" upgrades are designed for the more modern high impedance system. You cannot swap injectors across. Honestly for the ETA I either recommend a set of 19# type 3s to go with yuor 885 head swap (and all the "I" electronics that come with) - or a rebuild of the stock injectors. The ETA injectors actually flow pretty much the same as the M50 units.

[Timp]

So yes, as long as the flow rate of the injectors stays the same (or corresponding changes are made to the tune which shorten the injector pulse widths when running larger injectors) then fuel efficiency will increase with better atomization since you are able to do more work with the same amount of fuel. It mainly comes down to the driver being able to take advantage of this though.

Thank you very much for your explanation. That was helpful. Again, not to hijack this thread but would swapping in the mentioned type III injectors into an ETA interfere with flow rate? Is this just a matter of plug and play or would any fine adjustments be needed? Any info appreciated!

[Sagaris]

I can vouch for MaksV

He does very good work and is very honest/professional.
I have a set of injectors from him in my car right now

[MaksV]

So I should go with the 19# Mustang Type II's then? Conforti chipped.

If all you have is a chip it can go either way. 19# type II or type III. If all you have is a chip you will be fine with the M50 injectors too. Pretty much up to you.

Just shoot me a PM if you need a set.

[TrentW]

E30moneypit hit it right on the mark. The M20 runs at 3 bar and the M50 runs at 3.5bar. In reality I have had lots of good experiances running even 19# (~210cc) in a chipped and lightly modded M20. The 19# yellow units actually become 21.5# in a e36 (since it runs at 3.5bar) making them actually equivalent to the pink top S52 units.

Generally going from a single hole to a 4 hole design is preferable for atomization. However having the correct size injector is much more important. This is why I recommend the M50 green tops for stock or basic M20s, and the 19# for modded cars.

So I should go with the 19# Mustang Type II's then? Conforti chipped.

[Sagaris]

Better atomization is had with the 4 hole Bosch Design II and Design III injectors (as opposed to the single pintle Bosch Design I).

Better atomization means that the fuel has a greater opportunity to burn more completely due to having finer droplets of fuel and more air surrounding them. If the fuel was a solid stream into the engine, the fuel on the outermost layer of the stream would have to burn first for the rest of the fuel towards the center of the stream to ignite which would cause incomplete combustion, hence the reason small dispersed fuel droplets are preferable.

So yes, as long as the flow rate of the injectors stays the same (or corresponding changes are made to the tune which shorten the injector pulse widths when running larger injectors) then fuel efficiency will increase with better atomization since you are able to do more work with the same amount of fuel. It mainly comes down to the driver being able to take advantage of this though.

[MaksV]

E30moneypit hit it right on the mark. The M20 runs at 3 bar and the M50 runs at 3.5bar. In reality I have had lots of good experiances running even 19# (~210cc) in a chipped and lightly modded M20. The 19# yellow units actually become 21.5# in a e36 (since it runs at 3.5bar) making them actually equivalent to the pink top S52 units.

Generally going from a single hole to a 4 hole design is preferable for atomization. However having the correct size injector is much more important. This is why I recommend the M50 green tops for stock or basic M20s, and the 19# for modded cars.

[TrentW]

your german friends are wrong and so is most peoples info in the past few threads Ive read on here.

People focus soley on the flow with no regard to the pressure.

The "M50 17.5s" are a mere couple of cc bigger than the stock M20s.People pull them with no regard to the fact that that e36 uses 3.5 bar fpr and e30 "i" use 3.0... "e"2.5 btw.


stock e30 "i" units 0280150715 flow154cc @3 bar

stock e36 17.5s greens or whatever you chose to call them 0280150415 flow 166cc @ 3 Bar

stop focusing on urban legends and do proper research and look at flow under XX bar for proper application.

good day.


PS --- makes me wonder if all thsoe chip tuners really did test the "17.5s" and "19s" when they clearly do not flow that on e30s. 17.5s flow less and the 19s flow more.....

So please clarify, are you saying go with the stock E30 "i" injectors or the 19#?

[Timp]

Not to hijack this thread either, but if I switched over to the pintleless in my ETA, would this result in higher miles per gallon? If so, would it be a noticeable difference? I've been thinking of having my injectors rebuilt anyway, so perhaps switching over to these could be a good idea?

Any input appreciated.

[MR 325]

The "M50 17.5s" are a mere couple of cc bigger than the stock M20s.People pull them with no regard to the fact that that e36 uses 3.5 bar fpr and e30 "i" use 3.0... "e"2.5 btw.

But a little bigger is all you really need. Most people that think they need to upgrade their injectors have no further mods than an off the shelf chip and a catback exhaust.

[5Toes]

Interesting turnout to this thread. lol

[TurboJake]

All of the part numbers I listed are rated at 3 bar. I should've mentioned that.

[e30moneypit]

your german friends are wrong and so is most peoples info in the past few threads Ive read on here.

People focus soley on the flow with no regard to the pressure.

The "M50 17.5s" are a mere couple of cc bigger than the stock M20s.People pull them with no regard to the fact that that e36 uses 3.5 bar fpr and e30 "i" use 3.0... "e"2.5 btw.


stock e30 "i" units 0280150715 flow154cc @3 bar

stock e36 17.5s greens or whatever you chose to call them 0280150415 flow 166cc @ 3 Bar

stop focusing on urban legends and do proper research and look at flow under XX bar for proper application.

good day.


PS --- makes me wonder if all thsoe chip tuners really did test the "17.5s" and "19s" when they clearly do not flow that on e30s. 17.5s flow less and the 19s flow more.....